Bruce001

After a 16 year hiatus, I'm thinking about getting back into TKD. (In between I've spent some time with Shorin-Ryu.) Problem: I'm now in my mid 40s and have a back that seems to respond very negatively to kicking movements. Anyone else in the same boat, or know someone who is? I love forms, one step sparring, all that. I'm concerned about ground work and sparring. (Not that I've seen too much ground work. But it's popular these days.) Thanks!

Ueshiro Shorin-Ryu Karate USA. Anyone heard of it? Or practice it? I managed to get a green belt with them a few years ago at the local YMCA. I greatly enjoyed the classes and the people there. I'm curious to hear other people's opinions though. Thanks!

Thanks so far, for your responses. Here are a few quick responses. First, I'm relieved to hear that other dojos have stories of their founders. That tells me this group isn't that far out. Second, the part about the dead founder's signature is also refreshing. It is, of course, a stamped signature and not a handwritten one. Third, while this group, with some legitimacy I think, claims to be in the style of Matsubayashi Ryu, they are not affiliated with Mr. Nagamine's organization. I do not want to name the organization publicly because I'm concerned that my reservations about the organization have more to do with my perception of things than reality. (Which is why I'm doing a reality check with you guys.) I would hate to see this group labelled forever out in cyberspace simply because I had misgivings; especially if they are uninformed misgivings. Finally, I appreciate the notion that I may have a cult like instructor and that he/she may not be representative of the whole organization. This is a possibility I'm seriously considering. I'm still processing all this and appreciate your input. Again, thank you for helping me on my journey.

Another thought, building off the post above, that has entered my mind is the notion that progress in Asian martial arts is measured in decades, not years. I'm not sure where I originally heard that idea, but seeing explanations of the different levels of kata interpretation brings it to mind again. I need to realize that effort spent on karate now will likely pay off when I'm in my 70's. Karate is indeed a lifelong marathon. So it seems as if taking a few months off to get my bearings and sort some of this stuff out isn't a bad thing.

Many thanks to all of you who've helped with this topic. Where am I? On the one hand, disturbed by the fact that my instructor seemingly does not know much about the katas he teaches. On the other hand, wanting to continue classes anyway because I like the katas and am less inclined to be turned off by the fact that I might not learn all there is to know about karate. I'm still on the fence, in large part because of this issue, but also because of a growing concern that my school, which meets at the local YMCA, might actually be a cult. I've placed by question to that in a separate post. But this seems to be the next thing I have to grapple with. Again, many thanks, you guys are moving me along splendidly.

I am grateful for all the responses to my other post about the lack of take downs in my school (http://www.karateforums.com/did-nagamine-strip-shorin-ryu-of-locks-takedowns-vt44979.html). I've almost convinced myself to return to class. Nevertheless, I have some other reservations that you guys can surely help me with. After reading Marc MacYoung's website (http://www.karateforums.com/did-nagamine-strip-shorin-ryu-of-locks-takedowns-vt44979.html) I'm concerned that my school of karate might actually be a cult. I thought I'd do a reality check you guys first. Problems I see... My Yon-Kyu certificate was signed by a man whose been dead for about 11 years. While we take time to bow to the shinden, we often hear about the leader of our school, for which the whole system is named and how he made such great sacrifices to bring the art to us. Said leader is memorized in a style similar to depictions I see of the Buddha. (Again, he's been dead for about 11 or 12 years.) From at least one of my instructors, there is a lot of talk about ancient masters, and all kinds of mystical/spiritual stuff. Fact checking the claims about ancient masters does not pan out. The whole art seems to be about spiritual development, not actual combat skills. This may be why I've had enough problems to ask whether or not Matsubayashi Ryu had been stripped of take down moves. Very high emphasis on tradition, to the point that it seems a little much. Revealed or superior teachings. These are just some of the things I see that could be red flags for this group. In fact, this particular school that meets at the local YMCA seems to fail all the criteria I read about when googling how to pick a martial arts school. Pity, I love kata and I've enjoyed doing it with them. Frankly, it's just getting a little weird though. I'd love to write more and will happily do so if anyone wants to help me process this. But, given the depth of the answers to my last post, this seems like a good place for a reality check. Many thanks in advance! You guys have helped me on my journey.

Thanks andym. It's not my intention to damn Shorin Ryu. In light of this thread, I've pretty much settled on the idea that the instructor is to blame. With that in mind, I'm weighing my options. I don't know where or what I'll train in. But I know it won't be with him anymore.

I've had some serious reservations about my instructor. While this exchange happened via email, he was very emphatic that there was nothing hidden in the kata. He even promised that if I stuck with the program, I would learn multiple strikes and blocks. His reply was of such a tone that, when I showed it to my wife, she freaked out and said he responded like a cult devotee whose world view had been shattered. I've since googled martial arts cults and, suffice it to say, the results don't look good. I haven't been back to class since. Frankly, his response spooked me. Perhaps that was his intention. Maybe I'm not worthy of the secret. Then again, I'm not twelve and I live in a place where I can legally carry a firearm. Knowing a few joint maneuver's, or at least that they'll be taught at some point, shouldn't be too much to ask. So I must wonder whether or not he even knows these moves, whether or not he's interested in having me as a student, or whether or not his game is preserving some kind of dojo culture, or even worse (weird cult).

I've been training in a style of Matsubayashi Ryu for about six months. Recently, I had a Goju Ryu instructor show me how he interprets the katas. (I'll never view a down block the same way again.) I approached my sensei about this and he rather stringently denied that there was anything hidden in the katas. That left me wondering if he was being dishonest with me (not necessarily for nefarious reasons) or if he simply didn't know the take downs involved. This leads me to a question that only you guys can answer: Does Matsubayashi Ryu have any joint locks or take downs? Was it perhaps Nagamine's plan to remove them for some reason? Are they concealed to all but the most trusted students? I'm still stunned over the Goju Ryu instructor's demonstration. I'm questioning whether or not I want to study karate either with a sensei who may or may not know the grappling aspects of the art, or with a sensei in another system that teaches pure self defense. In the mean time, I appreciate any insights you guys have. Thanks! Bruce

RJCKarate, I'm finding this to be true as well. It's a pleasant surprise! I was not expecting my productivity at work, or around the house for that matter, to rise as a result of my training. It is! That fact has taken me completely off guard.

Greetings one and all, I'm new to the board and new to Matsubayashi Ryu. I love the katas! I am enjoying drinking deeply of this art. While my interest in karate is less than lethal, I am curious to know if anyone has actually used Matsubayashi Ryu successfully (or not) on the street. Self-defense is not my primary concern in studying karate. I tend to view karate practice like yoga (with a lot more screaming). Nevertheless, it seems as if one must be able to fight with this art in order to truly understand it. I would love to be able to contemplate other people's experiences. Many thanks! Bruce