Kusotare

That really depends on what both classes offer. When you say ‘Japanese jitsu’ I’m taking it you mean traditional Japanese Jujutsu? If so this is a very nebulous area! The chances of you coming into contact with an authentic Japanese Jujutsu school are practically zero. More likely it is a school that practices basic Judo (and probably not very well). The Japanese jitsu thing is just a marketing thing. And anyway – contrary to popular understanding, only a relatively small percentage of the curriculum in most Japanese Jujutsu systems revolve around grappling / floor work (and if they do it is usually grappling with a bladed weapon). IMO you would be better augmenting your karate training with good quality Judo or BJJ. K.

That's a rather broad sweeping generalisation. There is Japanese jujutsu and there is Japanese jujutsu. Most of the stuff I see displayed under the banner of JJJ is no more than poorly practiced Judo. If however you are fortunate enough to be exposed to some of the koryu systems - you might revise your thinking. Some of the ground work found in Araki-ryu for example is devastatingly effective. It's sole purpose is to arrest or seriously maim / kill someone. In many systems (Takenuchi-ryu, Araki-ryu and Sosuishi-ryu) hand to hand Jujutsu is practiced but the core of their grappling is done so using a 'sho-to' or short blade (this sort of grappling is referred to as Kogusoku). K. It may be a broad generalization but it's also an accurate one. I've been exposed to a few jjj systems and all have been less than impressive with underwhelming instructors. Most of the problem lies in their lack of live rolling and full contact. In my experience a blue belt in bjj tends to submit a jjj Black belt several times in a single training session. There may be exceptions. It they're far from the rule In regards to "deadly" techniques that's a bogus argument as well- all techniques are deadly if followed through on. A choke hold is about as deadly as they come- and ironically as safe as they come too. It's just a question of time. It'd be less appropriate to label jjj techniques as deadly and more appropriately to label them as "exotic" Have you trained in Araki-ryu?

That's a rather broad sweeping generalisation. There is Japanese jujutsu and there is Japanese jujutsu. Most of the stuff I see displayed under the banner of JJJ is no more than poorly practiced Judo. If however you are fortunate enough to be exposed to some of the koryu systems - you might revise your thinking. Some of the ground work found in Araki-ryu for example is devastatingly effective. It's sole purpose is to arrest or seriously maim / kill someone. In many systems (Takenuchi-ryu, Araki-ryu and Sosuishi-ryu) hand to hand Jujutsu is practiced but the core of their grappling is done so using a 'sho-to' or short blade (this sort of grappling is referred to as Kogusoku). K.

In short no - or at least not authentic ones. There are a number of extant traditions that are referred to as 'Koryu' (or old school), however they are quite rare these days and acceptance into them can be very difficult. The study of said traditions takes 100% commitment, and most schools will require evidence of such before making any investment in the student. This can sometimes take years!!! So the holiday camp style 'turn up and train with the Shaolins' - don't exist. k.

Something to consider on the subject of Kata and how they relate to Koryu arts... When referring to 'Koryu', it is generally accepted it pertains to (mainland) Japanese martial systems that were founded prior to the Meiji restoration. To be pedantic, strictly speaking, there is no such thing as a karate 'Koryu' although some make an interesting case for Goju-ryu. Interestingly however most of the Japanese Koryu use a different kanji for the word kata to that used by Okinawan karate. Typically most Okinawan karate utilise the kanji 型 (Kei). Whereas Japanese Koryu use 形 (Gyou). They both read as Kata but the meanings vary slightly (but enough to be important to understand why). In a nutshell, the Okinawan reading of kata 型 (Kei) comes to represent a template or prototype, whereas the Japanese 形 (Gyou) means form or shape (it is found the Japanese word for a wooden doll 'ningyou' which means human form). These are important distinctions in terms of the pedagogical approach between the two. Okinwan karate kata are used as a way to generate possibilities and variations, whereas the Japanese approach is to use the kata to develop good focus, form strength and principles of movement - augmented with paired kata. K.

5th Dan Wado-ryu Karate

Kuroda Tetsuzan sensei. The greatest living exponent of classical Japanese budo.

That would be correct, Seiichi Akamine's Goju Ryu Ken-Shin-Kan, and Shorin Ryu Kenshin Kan under Fuse Kisei. I would suggest 'Kenshin' is the dojo name in this respect rather than a style. It's quite a common name written as either Shinken or Kenshin it mean "true/pure- fist/blade". K

As I understand it, this isn't correct. "Conditioning" in this respect does 'NOT' mean the toughening of the skin but rather developing correct form. The same could be said for judo-ka who practice ukemi - it toughens you but by developing correct form / technique. K.

As I understand it, one of the major obstacles that karate has continually faced tying to get into the Olympics is participant safety. (Too much blood shed goes against the Olympic way of things). TKD overcame this with the head guards and the body shield etc. Although WKF karate-ka currently wear under gi chest plates - I don't believe head guards are compulsory (it will be interesting to see if they become so for the Olympics). As for knock down karate and UFC style MMA - I can't ever see them getting in... Too much risk of blood being drawn. K.

By 4th dan my best sparing days were behind me! K

For those interested: The following 'styles' attended the annual Kyoto Butokusai (held at the Butokuden (head quarters of the Butoku-kai)) in May 1939 where, they officially registered their names... Shotokan-ryu Wado-ryu Karate-jutsu Goju-ryu Shito-ryu Shindo Shinzen-ryu Kosun-ryu (later re-named Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu) Kushin-ryu. As far as identifying groups by names - I think this is a good starting point. K.

Trying to age a karate style is like trying to age a species of creature. All martial systems owe their existence to earlier fighting methods (some dating back centuries). So at what point does one evolve into another. Also as Goju Bahrain says - How do you define 'style'? What is the registration point - ie is it when the creator first develops it? Is it when the school is named, is it when the school is registered with a governing body etc. etc. All semantics really, but if you look at the ancient martial traditions of feudal Japan, the term Koryu is used to define a school that was founded prior to the Meiji restoration (1868). The Dai Nippon Butoku-kai (one of the oldest national bodies of martial arts in Japan) recognise Goju Ryu Karate as a "Koryu". As far as I know, no other karate system is recognised as such. K.

More than likely old age, although there is something to be said about the different kicking methods utilised by some of the older Koryu traditions.

Here's the thing... Kata like Tanto-dori were never "officially" taught by Otsuka sensei. He only ever used them as demonstration pieces. Given that they were never an official kata of the Wado-kai, there is no wonder subjectivity creeps in. K.

Melau, Can I take it from your profile picture that you are with the WIKF? Is the "national" grading / training you refer to a multi Wado group event or is it just WIKF? If it's the later - as others have said, there may well be small differences between instructors (such is the Shu-Ha-Ri of things). If it is a Multi organisation event you will see more apparent differences, but the core Wado principles should remain firmly intact. So why the differences? Human nature aside, you have to bear in mind the on-going development of Wado-ryu that Otsuka sensei undertook right up until his death in the 1980's The Wado he (and therefore many of his early students such as Suzuki sensei) practiced in the 1940's and 50's evolved through the 60's and 70's to the point where techniques and kata were "tweaked" - in some cases quite considerably! I have heard it likened to software updates! The Wado that Suzuki sensei was taught prior to him coming to Europe in the 1960's was perhaps Wado version 2.1 whereas some of his later students that remained with Otsuka in Japan (such as Takagi sensei) were practicing Wado version 3.2. This lead to Wado-ka in Europe practicing a slightly different Wado to those of the JKF in Japan. Then we have a further development when Otsuka left the Wado-kai to set up the Wado-ryu Renmei. When you take this into account - there is no wonder you see the variation of Wado-ryu you do out there - and that's just between the 3 main Wado groups - before we start talking about the break away groups. K.

What I saw were whackjobs on both sides of the debate! I'm not religious - so I can't comment on the accuracy of the "Jesus" stuff, but I've been a practicing martial artist for 30 plus years (most of those in very traditional Japanese styles) and I can honestly say I've never seen such nonsense practiced in any dojo I've trained in. Interesting to note the distinct lack of "oriental" instructors involved. In fact - very little reference is given to lineage of style and I think that could be a contributing factor. What I saw was definitely "Pseudo-Budo"! As for the religious stuff!? K.

This is very much the Wado Karate approach. I wrote a small piece on this a while back on another forum... The way Wado is designed to be taught is similar to that of a feudal koryu system rather than an Okinawan karate. Even the way the Kanji for Kata is written is different - and that's no mistake. In Wado we have Kata which is written as 形 (Gyo) instead of 型 (Kei) used in the Okinawan experience. In nutshell "形 (Gyo)" means shape, form or mould. Whereas "型 (Kei)" means template or prototype. It's difficult to get your head around, but Wado kata (gyo) is about practicing the form in order to train the body as a solo exercise, as opposed to Okinawan Kata (kei) which is more concerned with developing the techniques found within the kata (usually this takes the form of Bunkai with an opponent, so the techniques can be realised). As a result, most Wado groups don't typically tend to utilise the process of "Bunkai" as part of their kata study, but instead use the body strengthening and conditioning developed as a result of practicing solo kata and then apply this to the various paired kata found within the Wado-ryu. Typically, most students aren't ready to be exposed to paired kata like kihon kumite, kumite gata and idori etc., until they have been studying for 2-3 years and then it takes many years after that before you start to understand how the paired kata work. Just thought I'd share. K.

Agreed, but those who aspire to improve, set manageable goals toward that end - reap the rewards. 'It is the struggle itself that is more important. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards.' - Lt. Com. Data K.

But, what if your goal isn't self defence or competition? What if your goal is to perform the best Kata you possibly can with the best techniques you have? What if your goal is to perform the best Junzuki (forward punch)? An archer can hit the bulls eye 3 out of 3 and yet still be unhappy with the way the shots felt! This weekend Ronnie O'sullivan (one of the greatest snooker players ever to wield a cue) - won the Masters - thrashing his opponent 10-1. His first words after the match were that he felt he didn't play very well and was disappointed! Once you get past the need to defend yourself - you realise the martial arts are much more multi dimensional and ultimately, the beauty of their study lies in the realisation that you NEVER become proficient. It's about being better than you were the last time you trained and finding something new everyday. K.

The Spiritual side of things is very important to these guys... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorinji_Kempo Religion / spirituality WAS important to the Bushi of feudal Japan (much as it was to the crusading knights of the European middle ages). Prior to each keiko, most traditional karate clubs will perform "za-rei" (kneeling bows). This usually consists of a bow to the front, one to the instructor and one to the students. This is almost certainly a throw back to the classical Japanese dojo where the showmen (forward) bow was typically performed to a kamidana (a miniature shrine that is used to house artefacts considered to embody spirits/gods). In many gendai dojo, the Kamidana has been replaced with photos of founding masters etc. Love it or loathe it, there is (or at least was) a spiritual connection within the traditional Japanese martial arts. Trouble is - In the west, we don't really get it and as a result people make up stuff to look like they do. K.

Of bunkai - a friend of mine once summed it up along the lines of... "Bunkai means to take apart and analyse. If kata was a bicycle, bunkai would involve taking it to pieces to find out how the bicycle works! I'd much rather concentrate on learning how to ride." I can't speak regarding other styles, but from a Wado perspective it is very true. K.

Wow! Sounds impressive. Are you able to post any more details (links to articles and websites)? You say Karate-ka should know who you are. Being from the other side of the pond, we probably don't have a lot of info about you. K.

Well, as they say - there is only training! K.

Yes, but for everything there is a time and a place. Agreed - It's the Dojo. K.