vantheman

Hello all, Being under the lineage of Fred Villari's Shaolin Kempo Karate, I have run into my fair share of info, debates, criticisms, praises, ect. of the man. However, it often tends to be very one-sided and heavily biased, for better or for worse. I have seen some call him the most influential martial artist in the past 1000 (no, I did not inadvertently add an extra zero) years, while other claim that he couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. I have seen similar claims regarding the art. What further complicated things is that many people that are not under his lineage simply pretend he doesn't exist. Consequently, there is a paucity of unbiased, honest opinions out there on Master Villari and Shaolin Kempo Karate. I hope that in creating this thread, those who are familiar with him can have an open, constructive discussion on how they feel about him and his art. Now for my personal opinions: I realize that there are many criticisms people have regarding Villari's self promotion, business model, martial art, some of which are quite justified. I will agree that the promotion to twelfth degree was probably a little over the top and against traditional etiquette, but it's not like he's the first person to ever do that. Tenth degree black belts (to my knowledge) weren't a thing in Japan, which means that somewhere along the lines, someone had to start the trend through self promotion (from what I have been told it was initially ninjutsu, but I may be wrong). In the case of Kempo Karate, sources claim that William Chow had promoted himself to 15th Degree master of Kara-ho Kempo. As for his business practices, things get a little fuzzier. I don't think I know enough to fairly judge this, but it would seem that there were cases where Villari's schools and their decedents (especially USSD) would rapidly promote students and have them open new schools, which results in a hit or miss reality for many SKK dojos, which is unfortunate to say the least. It has also meant the SKK and Villari have become heavily associated with McDojos. As I said above, I don't know a ton on the exact practices, so I can't make a solid argument either way. That being said, this situation has had adverse affects on the art itself, which I do feel that I am qualified enough to comment on. While the unfortunate reality of the McDojo means that you will have some schools/instructors teaching the art in a less-than-ideal fashion, I believe that if you are studying under a legit instructor who has a good grasp of the art, Shaolin Kempo karate is a very effective and brutal art. Villari and his art, while at times a little cheesy, are the real deal if done properly. While many of the upper level forms are creations of Villari, he DID train under legitimate Shaolin masters and the forms are based on that training. You can see some clear similarities between Kung Fu and SKK techniques. I'm not saying the art is perfect, but I am saying it's legit. Please share any thoughts you have!

That is a very good point. Kenpo Karate (especially those systems under Villari) are probably as American as they are Chinese (that's probably why Boa is one of the Snake sub animals is SKK). If I am correct, Choki Motobu was one of the Karate practitioners that James Mitose trained with. While that may very well be true, I am questioning how much of Mitose's Kosho Ryu/Kenpo Jiujitsu made its way into William Chow's Kenpo Karate. While many seem to support the story that Chow learned from Mitose and his students (the former bringing Kenpo from Japan to Hawaii), others argue that Chow was more influenced by the Shaolin Kung Fu he learned from his father. I tend to support the latter argument, and feel that Chinese Kempo would be a more accurate term than Kenpo Karate (granted, Chinese Kempo already can refer to a bunch a different styles). But that's just me. That being said, most Kenpo practitioners have cross trained so much that it isn't as pure as either side of the argument would suggest.

There is a small amount of Korean influence that comes in with the development of Kajukenbo, which included Tang Soo Do. I believe that either George Pesare or Sonny Gascon also studied some Korean styles when they were stationed in the Korean War, but I cannot remember which one it is. Granted, many Asian martial arts have at least some Chinese influence somewhere in them. Kenpo, after all, is just a translation of Ch'aun Fa (which is what early Shaolin Kung Fu was referred to in China). That being said, Kenpo is considerably more Japanese than Kung Fu (obviously), although Kenpo Karate appears to have more of a Kung Fu/Wing Chun-esque feel to it. William Chow seems to have developed a more of a Chinese style of fighting, and most pictures of him show him wearing more of a kung fu outfit, not a gi.

Hello all, One of the historic concepts of Kenpo Karate I have found very intriguing is the debate between whether Shaolin Kung Fu or Kosho Ryu Kenpo influenced Chow more when he created the style. Most Kenpo Karate (American kenpo, Shaolin Kempo Karate, Kajukenbo) schools tend to trace back to James Mitose when discussing the lineage of their style, saying that the majority of what they study was brought over by Mitose from Japan. The Kung Fu training Chow received from his father is often omitted from the lineage/history. From the limited research I have done, however, this appears to be misleading, as Chow allegedly claimed that his father was his true teacher and saw Mitose as a mere business partner (they taught martial arts together). While there clearly is some Japanese influence on Kenpo Karate, it also looks very similar to Wing Chun, which makes a lot of sense: William Chow adapted Shaolin Kung Fu for self defense, which is essentially the same general story with Wing Chun. Additionally, the traditional Japanese/Okinawan Karate Pinans didn't enter the system until Nick Cerio, who is considerably further down the line. Furthermore, the only kata in Mitose's system, Naihanchi, appears to be missing in most Kenpo Karate schools. For these reasons, it would seem that Kenpo Karate styles are just as Chinese, if not more Chinese, than Japanese. Granted, my particular style branches off from Villari, who added some more Chinese based content into the system, but this is a fairly important aspect of Kenpo, and I figured some light should be shone upon it.

Hello all, A while ago, while discussing Kenpo Karate and its Hawaiian roots, someone had bought up Kapu Kuialua, more commonly known as "Lua." It's an ancient indigenous Hawaiian martial art and has some pretty unique stuff in it, such as some type of ocean-related training and weapons like the shark tooth spear. However, I've heard it's very inclusive, and restricted amongst those of strict Hawaiian ethnicity. Consequently, you can't find much about it anywhere. I figured this was a good a place as any to see if anyone has had any type of experience remotely involving lua.

Hello all, Despite the relative lack of a true ukemi (falling, and to a degree, rolling) system present in Kenpo Karate, throughout my studies, I have encountered a few artists who are particularly strong in this area (one in Aikido, the other in Danzan Ryu Jujitsu). On several occasions, we have discussed our beliefs that being able to successfully fall without hurting yourself is probably one of the most important and useful physical skills that you will learn in martial arts. Aside from being able to recover from being taken down or knocked over while fighting, ukemi has the potential for use in various other physical activities/sports and one's life in general. While in the context of martial arts it only plays one of many roles in your training, I can see myself using ukemi more often then any other (physical) skill I have learned in my training. What about you guys? Do you incorporate formal ukemi into your system/training? Do you agree that it is one of the more invaluable fruits of martial arts training?

I stumbled across these the other day: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ipunch-gloves It's an interesting concept to say the least. They appear to be able to track the speed and power of your punches, which is neat, although I don't know if I would necessarily drop $150 on them. If they can further develop gloves like these to analyze punching form, bone alignment, ect., I might consider it, although given the fairly slow start of their fundraising campaign they may never hit the market. Cool idea nonetheless and figured I would share with the KF community in the event anyone would consider supporting the company.

While I could give you an average value for the period of time needed to attain a black belt (5 years, for the heck of it), to try and say this represents a "typical" practitioner over simplifies the whole picture. The period of time required varies based on training frequency, training duration, the style in which you train in, the testing cycle, the instructor's expectations, the intensity and effort of training, technique retention, any tenure that might be required, ect. Granted, there are some trends within styles, schools, instructors, ect. as to how relatively long it takes to attain the rank, but it's really an aggregate of characteristics of the individual and the circumstances of his/her training.

My parent style is Shaolin Kempo Karate. SKK gets confusing because it takes its forms from a variety of sources, with inconsistencies in origin even within the same series of forms. This gets farther complicated because the grandmaster of my style made some fairly significant changes of his own. Generally speaking, most of the forms come from a Kenpo Karate master somewhere between my grandmaster and William Chow, except for the Pinans, which (except for the first two), come from the Okinawan/Shotokan Pinans. White Belt: No katas Yellow Belt: One Pinan (NOT the same as Pinan Shodan; it's more or less an exact copy of Taikyoku Shodan) Orange Belt: Two Pinan (Not Pinan Nidan; Footwork is the same as Taikyoku Shodan/One Pinan; the strikes are different; Creation of Nick Cerio, I believe Cerio is responsible for bringing the Pinans into Kenpo Karate) Purple Belt: One Kata (Created by Sonny Gascon around the time of his split from Kajukenbo) Blue Belt: Two Kata (" " " ") Blue/Green: Three Pinan (similar to Pinan Sandan) Green: Four Pinan (similar to Pinan Yondan) Green/Brown: Five Pinan (similar to Pinan Godan) Brown III: Three Kata (Created by Sonny Gascon) Brown II: Four Kata (" " " "; based off Pinan Nindan?) Brown I: Five Kata (Created by George Pesare) 1st Black: Six Kata (George Pesare), Statue of the Crane (George Pesare, based off Kata Rohai), Two Man Fist Set (Ed Parker Creation); Honsuki (Not really sure where this one comes from); Swift Tigers (adaptation of Pesare, Cerio, and Fred Villari) Everything 2nd Dan and higher is theoretical "Kung Fu," but in reality was creations of Fred Villari. That being said, the grandmaster of my system went outside of Kenpo Karate and brought a lot of outside Kung Fu back into the forms, to the point where they are distinctly different than other SKK school's versions. I haven't had the chance to talk to my GM and record the history of what he has done, so my knowledge the origins and adaptations to everything beyond 1st degree black belt is minimal.

Learning self-defense has always been a goal of mine, but I'd like to be a master one day. I wouldn't mind a short circuit in some amateur MMA either (I'm still young and fairly certain I could pull this off), although my conditioning and training would need to step up. The idea of teaching at least part-time somewhere in the future also appeals to me.

Hello all, Whilst looking around the internet today, I came across another "no nonsense, street lethal, police/military based" combatives self-defense system. While I don't often give much of my time into looking into these, as they are often fairly obvious money-making organizations that boast some insanely intelligent/visionary system of self defense, this one caught my attention (in both good and bad ways). The system's name is Guided Chaos (http://attackproof.com/home.html), and I first stumbled across it on YouTube. What made this system stand-out amongst others is that it made some very arguable points against some of the techniques and methodologies of traditional martial arts, internal arts, MMA, and (ironically) combative based martial arts. It also threw in what it claimed to be "Native American Groundfighting," which I have never heard of ever before. Nevertheless, the somewhat credible claims it makes seem to be over shadowed by the typical red flags: extreme costs, profit-maximizing curriculum schedule (something like a mandatory 10 hours of private lessons [$300/hr] needed for achieving a black belt), pyramid scheme instructor hierarchy, monopolizing brand control, over-simplification of how violence works despite claiming how violence is chaotic, questionable grandmaster, ect. While it's probably not worth too many people's time to even look into the system, it caught my eye and I haven't seen too too many discussions on these types of combative systems. These types of systems (incl. Guided Chaos) have been discussed on other forums, but they tend to be fairly immature, shallow, and anything but constructive (making jokes about the instructor or techniques). Anyone have any thoughts on Guided Chaos or these combative systems in general?

Because of the adaption of various arts in the history of the style of Kempo I train in, the weapon training in my school covers various arts and weapons (although weapons are definitely a secondary/optional concern in my school's curriculum). There are some escrima techniques we learn (escrima was introduced into Kempo Karate by Adriano Emperato I believe), as well as the standard collection of Okinawan Kobudo (from Nick Cerio) weapons: Bo, Nunchaku, Sai, Tonfa, Kamas, ect. Somewhere along the line some type of Japanese sword stuff came in too (Iaido I would guess). Recently, an Aikido nidan has moved into our dojo and has begun teaching some Jo and bokken techniques as well, but there truly is still no formal weapon system per say in our art. Although this is probably outside of the intent in the question, there is a heavier emphasis on gun and knife training in our system that has been picked up from basic combative stuff and KAPAP. Additionally, there IS formal pistol training and certification offered. Personally, I have had varying experience with the Bo, Nunchaku, knife, escrima, bokken, and jo from their respective elements within kempo karate (kobudo, self-defense, escrima, aikido).

I don't feel like the shoes are too restrictive as far as ankle/foot flexing movements (although there is some inevitable restriction due to the fact they're shoes). I actually think that a sturdier construction is actually more helpful with these shoes as opposed to the last pair (which was quite soft/pliable), as it prevents my feet from bulging and sliding off the sole and keeps that foot and the shoe moving as one.

Hello all, After about a year of searching for shoes, I am glad to say I have finally found a pair that are suitable for my flat, wide feet. I stumbled across Tai-Chi Tranquility one day on the internet, which, amongst other things, sells custom measured martial arts shoes. All in all the shoes were only ~$85 (which is a really a great deal considering that includes the international shipping) and they fit perfectly. Most importantly, they have an option for using a different sole for wide feet (which doesn't halve in width halfway through the sole like most other martial arts shoes). I would suggest their shoes to anyone who needs a good traditional martial arts shoe, especially those with wider and/or flatter feet. If anyone wants to know more, feel free to ask!

Since these shoes have been pretty popular amongst martial artists, I figured I would share it in case anyone hadn't heard http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27335251 Feel free to share your thoughts

Thanks for the suggestion!

Hello all, Over the years I have been training, I have considered purchasing shoes to train in. After some looking around, I finally picked up a pair. While they are great shoes, they are slightly too narrow for my foot (my foot actually supersedes the edges of the sole, it is not just a matter of the shoe needing "breaking in"). I was wondering if anyone had any advice on where I could obtain wide shoes that would be suitable for indoor martial arts training. (they do not need to necessarily be martial arts shoes, just something that would work well in such an environment)

I have heard one of my instructors suggest that looking slightly beside the opponent's head/over their should is a good place to look. They claim that it 1) reduces the personal connection you feel to the opponent and prevents you from hesitating in hurting another human being and 2) reduces the "focusing" one tends to do when staring, and encouraging reaction instead of thinking and overanalyzing. I tend to agree with this position.

I think the terms "traditional" and "modern" are being misused in this case. MMA contains some very old martial arts that have been handed down through time. The difference is that it is taught in a sport-based trained method, rather than an art-based method. To try and call one traditional and one modern does not seem like an accurate means of grouping arts. I think grouping them based on purpose, training methods, origins, ect. are better ways to analyze and interpret arts. Likewise, I think asking if "traditional" martial arts are respected is a fairly trivial matter.

I am a 2nd Degree Black Belt (Nidan) in Chinese Kempo Karate Began 2006 Shodan in 2011 Nidan in 2013 White Belt in BJJ began 2013 but had some Submission Wrestling Background since 2011

Hello all, After thinking things over a bit, I have a few opinions/ideas I would like to share. I'll start off with MMA. Simply put, the rise of the MMA has had impact on the view of martial arts by the mainstream western world. Seeing that sporting events are very popular in the Western world, it is not surprising that MMA has been so successful. As a result, the martial arts commonly used in MMA saw a rise in popularity. However, many people forget that many of these martial arts ARE traditional. Things like boxing and wrestling predate ancient Greek civilizations. What bothers me is the misconceived notion that because boxing and wrestling are sports, not "traditional" arts, they are only suited for sport situations and will not work in real world self defense. Although this is a separate issue, it has already made its way into this discussion and I figured I should address it anyways. The problem with this logic is that the arts used in MMA are used because they work and are effective methods of combat. Yes, you CAN learn how to fight and defeat attackers very well without having to follow tradition, go to Japan, or perform kata (or go through some overly philosophical fighting theory discussions, for that matter). Therefore, experience in any ONE of the Mixed Martial arts styles accompanied with some very basic self defense or cross training can result in someone with comparable or better physical and combative ability than many traditional martial artists (especially when you take into account the many illegitimate McDojos). (Please note that this does not apply the psychological aspects of self defense, that come mainly from experience, i.e. a police officer in a dangerous locale). Also, please remember I do study and respect traditional martial arts. ---Rant end--- In short, what I am trying to say is that the MMA has created a different image in people's minds for the martial artist. Instead of the man in the gi doing katas in a dojo, they see a man in fight shorts fighting another man in a ring. The direct effect is not necessarily disrespect to traditional MAs, but more of a shift of respect to MMAists. Now, there are MMAists that argue against traditional martial artists, which IS disrespectful, and which I do NOT necessarily agree with, but that has already been debated extensively on this site. The next cause of decline in respect "traditional" martial arts is the emergence of many modern "combative" martial arts. NOTE: By "combative" I refer to the martial arts styles based primarily off of military combative skills. To put things simply, the military needs to learn martial arts-style combat quickly and efficiently. As a result, the less combative aspects of martial arts (katas, discipline, breathing exercises, low stance work, internal arts, rigid blocks) are either cut out, or already covered in other parts of military training (marching, ceremonial stuff, ect.). When personal/civilian adaptations of these martial arts, such as Krav Maga, gain popularity, they end up being pure self defense. There is nothing inherently wrong with them aside from the fact that the only long term option with these arts is to become an instructor. Once again, some of these practitioners criticize traditional MAs as inefficient, which does cause a level of disrespect, although that is another back and forth debate much like the sport-art one. I believe that the bigger selling point for these arts is the association with the army, which does not really directly effect traditional MAs. It just creates the image in people's heads of fighting like a secret agent, as opposed to a ninja/samurai/shaolin monk. Lastly is the unfortunate rise of the over-commercialization of the martial arts. This is fairly straightforward: when one's desire to make money exceeds the desire to teach people martial arts to the point where training is significantly compromised (aka, a McDojo), the school, the martial arts, and in some cases, traditional martial arts as s whole, decline in status. To conclude, the issues that traditional martial arts have had to deal with as far as conflicts in respect go are not necessarily bad. Although MMA practitioners sometimes put down Traditional MAs, it is not a one way battle, as there are plenty Traditional MAists doing the same to sport based arts. (the silver lining? it shows dedication to one's art ). The Traditional MAists are also to blame in part too; you don't see a lot of McMMA gyms,.. Regardless, the martial arts are always evolving, and they MUST in order to stay relevant! Tradition is important but 'traditional' is relative.

Thanks for all of the replies. I have an additional question: What color stripes would be put on a black belt with a white bar? Granted, it seems clear that nobody really follows these standards (and it is a fairly trivial matter in the first place), but I am curious nonetheless.

Thanks! That what seemed to be the case, but I figured I could find someone who knew for sure on here.

Hello all, I have a somewhat random question about Brazilian Jujitsu; it's something I have been curious about but never got around to asking my instructor about it last time I saw him. On Brazilian Jujitsu black belts, I have seen some with white rank bars, some with red rank bars, and some with red rank bars with white stripes on either end of the bar (NOT Degree bars, but white "border" stripes if you will on the ends of the sleeve). I have done some searching around, but haven't found anything conclusive. I read some places that it has to do with if you are an instructor or not, but the IBJJF just has the black belt with the red bar with white ends listed on the official grading guidelines. Anyone with any knowledge of this care to explain?

My school is all English. The only exception are the names of a few forms.