chiliphil1

No no, I think you make a very valid point, I don't believe you have it wrong at all! I look at it like this, if someone cannot kick over their head it doesn't make them a bad practitioner but I would expect at that level for perfect knee level kicks! The issues I had were not with speed, power, intensity, but rather with lack of skill. Even the oldest, weakest, etc practitioner should be able to complete the movement correctly (unless injury prevents it) and should at the very least punch the correct way, block in the right spot, turn their head to the attacker, etc. These were the things I did not see in addition to lack of intensity for the teenage students which I would expect to have such things. The best candidate was around 16 or so, he impressed me and I felt that he deserved the rank but he was one of the few. I have to admit though, I am picky and I have no problem failing someone if they do not deserve the rank, if they do not get the belt they will work harder and realize that it won't just be handed to them, that's my theory anyway and that's the way I have always felt about it. There have been other occasions in the past where I was again the only one to vote for students to fail and these students were below the BB level but again I was overruled by an instructor who felt it was better to give them the belt and THEN work with them. I cannot help but think that there is some "student retention" at play here. I try not to sound like I am complaining or elitist, I have certainly failed gradings in the past and I should have. I worked harder and was better the next time, if I got the rank it wouldn't have given me much reason to work harder.

I can agree with you here. I sat on a board not too long ago and I found that 80% of the students would not have passed if I had been making the call. As I recall the worst of the bunch was the highest ranking! He was going for 2nd dan and in my opinion was not a brown belt equivalent. What really got me was going behind the scenes when the time came to vote on who passed and failed and I was the ONLY one to say he should not pass! The senior members commented to each other that if a student wasn't up to par it was their fault as instructors and no fault of the student! With that they passed everyone who tested and said that "some of them will need to train harder from now on" but they got their black belts? What in the world? I decided then that I would no longer fit in that school and I decided to not sit on a board anymore!

That seems about right. My previous school had testing every 3 months, if you met the time in rank requirements and passed the pre test you were in. In most cases if you passed the pre test and made it to the actual test you were guaranteed to pass. The new one is different, you have to tell them that you are ready to be promoted, once you have done that you have 2 senior students watch you, if they feel you are good they will sign off and tell the CI, he will watch and if you're good, you're promoted. Once you have been promoted you complete a very structured demonstration in front of the class and are then awarded your rank. It's very interesting and very different than where I came from. I think in your case if you are invited to test then there should never be a question of someone being graded ahead of their abilities which I have seen A LOT of over the years. You are also spot on with the want for rank. Kids are taught to chase the next belt, they are driven by accomplishing something tangible, like a new belt. Adults realize all of the benefits that they are receiving and are not as worried about their rank. We all want to get to BB of course but we are not driven by it. One other thing my new dojo does which is a good idea is to award a stripe for every 6 classes you attend, this keeps the kids interested and gives them a reason to want to be there. They do not require a certain number of stripes to grade, it just denotes attendance. In the junior ranks there are 12 belts and in the adult 8. The CI did this so that the kids have something more to work for. I think it was a very good idea. He also does not award BB under age 16, so it gives the kids lots of belts to earn until they are old enough to get the BB.

I finally got to see a promotion at my new dojo. A girl was testing for 1st kyu. It went like this. She got the approval of 2 senior students who then made a recommendation to the CI that she was ready, he then watched her and decided if she had passed. This all happened previously, tonight she did her demonstration. It consisted of the 1 required kata for the rank, she also did a lower kata and then did it again as a bunkai. She read an essay she had written and demonstrated some basic self defense movements. It took about 20 minutes to complete. I really like this system, she did this as a demo but had already passed because the CI had previously watched her. I think it gives you some pressure but at the same time she did the real "test" one on one with the CI. I should be doing it soon myself, everyone is telling me I am ready to move up to 8th Kyu but I'm in no hurry at this point.

The last student I promoted to brown went this way. I watched him for the past 2 years of training, saw where he was at at the belt prior to brown belt (we have 3 brown belts), and decided he deserved his first brown belt. I called him out at the end of class, opened my briefcase and handed him a certificate and belt for 3rd kyu. Simple, huh? No pushups (they do those every class anyway), no massive kata drills (these do kata every class anyway), and no sparring (they do that most classes anyway). Esentially, that student had been testing weekly (every class) for the past 2 YEARS! Personally, I don't see a point in a "formal" testing process like you described. This is how my new dojo does it, sort of. You have to as 2 seniors to watch you and if they feel that you are good they will tell the CI and then he will watch you and that's it. No formal tests, they see what you do in class and if you've got it they know it. I really really like this system and I think it's much better than the normal method. Not sure how it works at the BB level, he's never had a student make it that far, but there are 2 which are now 2nd kyu and should be doing it fairly soon.

Absolutely my friend, my kids have looked from afar for a long time now, they have wanted to participate as much if not more than I have! This dojo doesn't start until 5 but luckily since I brought so many people he is allowing my 4 year old to train. She's doing good, very receptive to learning but bored easily. I work with them at home as well, this weekend we drilled kata and basic technique and they did well. I also just purchased some supplies for the house I went on amazon as you did and bought 2 hand targets and 1 kicking target as well as a wave master bag and a makiwara for myself. I find that it is sometimes hard to train at the house, so I figure having some equipment to use will only help.

Glad to hear that you're doing much better and that you're able to return to the floor!! Thank you sensei! I can honestly say that the floor has never felt more sacred to me than it does now. I have for years now dreamt of getting back into a dojo, especially with my kids but there was always something, work schedule, money, something that kept me from being able to do it but finally it has happened! I just hope that it all holds together when I have to go back to work after the injury is fully healed. As far as my posting about the dogi, I don't mean to come across as materialistic or elitist, just wanting to offer some info for people who are wondering as I could not fund much when I was looking to purchase it.

I know it's been a while but I finally am at a point in recovery from my injury where I was able to get back into a class! I have now worn this dogi twice and I am so very impressed with it. I used to wear century which is a fine quality gi but the material is rough and rubs on you, it feels heavy and doesn't seem to want to breath to well. Not the case with this one at all! The material feels smooth, so it doesn't rub you, it breathes very well and wicks away the moisture almost as quickly as you can sweat it out! Yet it never feels heavy because of it. I also notice that the kimono part of the dogi tends to stay tucked in my obi better as well, not sure why but I didn't find myself having to pull it down all the time. If I had one complaint it would be that the pants do not stay up! The drawstring waist seems to loosen with every movement and I pull my pants up quite often, I found myself trying to tuck it under the obi so that they wouldn't fall! I think I may let some of the hem out so that i can wear them higher and keep the obi over the pants, other than that it's phenomenal, again worth the price without question.

My children and I attended our first formal class this evening and I am absolutely thrilled! The children classes were very good, structured but still fun and not restrictive. My class was great as well, very small, only 4 students including me which was nice, got some one on one time with the instructor and went over all of the ciriculum for the yellow belt and I got some great pointers on what I was doing wrong and what I need to unlearn! All in all a great experience and I am so glad that I picked this dojo over the other one.

I wanted to update everyone. I went to the free class at the new dojo and I signed up with them. They offer the same program, in fact this instructor and the one at the first school came up together and are from the same lineage! This place had a much better atmosphere, they were much more structured and it didn't have that pushy "used car salesman" feel. I think I've made a good choice here. They also do not have contracts! It's month to month and I worked out a deal where it's roughly the same price but it includes 2 classes a week. I'm gonna take all the kids on Thursday and see how they like it, I'm happy and excited, I think this should be a great thing, but if it isn't I'm not stuck! Thank you all for the advice on this, I think it would have been a big mistake to join the first school.

This is the one thing that I liked. The youth students have their goals written on the wall, the adults get a book with everything outlined. At the same time it also put me off just a bit because they, like so many others seem to concentrate on rank, it's not that "you will get better and belts will come" it's "here's what you do to get to the next belt" I guess that isn't too big of an issue but I find myself being turned off by the rank,rank,rank thing. Now, as far as training methods those I also did and did not like. Firstly, when they were practicing kata they did it as a 2 person group, one would attack while the other executed the kata, I really liked that because it shows the practical use of the movements rather than learning a dance routine you are learning to apply the techniques and how they work. The rest of it was more of the point and shoot type stuff where you just hit the bag and that was that which is fine, just not as well explained. I did notice that they put an emphasis on why your hand went here and no there, if the hand is here you can counter, block, etc. I did like that part. Perhaps I didn't get the full view since I was a newbie, maybe I was holding them back from their normal routine? I'm not sure.. I spoke with the other local Shorin-Ryu dojo earlier and am going to take their introductory class tonight and see how it goes, if all is well I will sign with him, if not I'll figure it out but the more I think about it the more I think the first one I went to may not be right for me or the kids.

Thank you for the input as well. I misworded the brown belt issue, it's not that I am a beginner and they are advanced, it is that there are ONLY high ranking belts, and that makes me wonder. My old school had black belts, sure but they taught the classes, participants varied from white belt to red and were spread out, lots of colors in there. If I went to my old school and everyone was a red belt or black belt I would be put off because it tells me that either A they are making advancement too easy, or B they are not having new members or perhaps all of the new members are leaving. I don't feel that they would have TOO much issue with these brown belts, but I can say that they are teens and they act like it, most of them. It's a good bit of joking and carrying on which does allow a bit of fun into the class but at the expense of order. I don't think that I ever had discipline to the level of one handed knuckle pushups but I definitely did have a firm set of rules that I was EXPECTED to abide by and it made the class work, it made the student body a cohesive unit. I agree with your last statement in that training somewhere is better than trading no where. That would be fine and I would like to give them a try but having to go in blind and sign on for 18 months makes it tougher to just jump in. Oh, I forgot to mention in the original post that in addition to the contracts which everyone has to sign they also offer 3 levels. 1 basic, this is where I would be, 2 elite which means more weapons, advanced techniques, and you can wear black costs more, and 3 leadership program which means you assist with teaching classes and get special attention, costs more. I think this puts me off as well in the fact that if you pay more you get more. I do not agree with that at all but that's what they do. I guess they have a bunch of suckers for parents as well because every kid in my class was wearing black pants, black t shirts (untucked??) so apparently their parents pay the extra. One more thing, I have to think of my kids as well. I was there early enough to watch the juniors classes and again, I was not impressed. The class was lead by one of the teenagers and there was no order, no one was in line they just stood around randomly. They all had bo's and were leaning on them, using them as pole vaults, that sort of thing. The advanced juniors class had 2 students in it, brothers who were running though test requirements in order to get black stripe to be eligible to test and neither of them knew any of the material! When they were walking through with the instructor they had no technique at all, they couldn't even coordinate enough to move a left foot or a right foot, it was bad. I don't know the rank structure for this school but they were both green belts. That was another flag when these "advanced" juniors couldn't even step with the proper leg or turn the correct way.. Apparently they were awarded rank based on time. The instructor did tell me that " the 18 month program will get you about half way to black belt, but there are no promises on how far you will go in that time" So again we have the theory that all that matters is getting to black belt. Lots of suspicious things going on. I just signed up for the trial class at the other school, I will see what they do. Perhaps it will be better.

Thank you for your input. You have hit pretty much every point that I was looking for. I will try to reply to each. Money, in my area that is not a bad price by any means, training is expensive here and the price I stated is pretty much in line with everywhere else I have spoken to. The only difference being that this dojo offers the 1 day a week plan or for $40 more per month you can go 2 days, the other schools allow you to go more often. The classes are 50 minutes for kids and 1 hour for adults.I've only spoken to the traditional schools however as I have no interest in Tae Kwon Do and that's the only other style offered anywhere near me. The contract, I don't like that either. The biggest issue there is that I overheard him telling someone else that if you can't come to class you still pay, the money is auto deducted from your account and thus they have you no matter what, you will pay for your 18 months unless you move or have a medical reason why you cannot attend. This is tough with kids because they may or may not want to go, I also feel that I am being pressured a little bit into signing, I was told last night that I had to decide by my next class if I was going to sign up because if I didn't do it during my introductory period I would pay full price for the down payment, if I do it by my last class I get 50% off the down payment and since I have to pay 2 of those it would be nice to have the discount. I also asked if uniforms for my kids would be included and he said no, unless I sign up by this Friday, fishy. The brown belts. In my opinion these kids were not ready. There was one who was ok but by my standards none of them are near BB, including the one who is the asst instructor. I do feel like they are moving up by time and not by skill, that bothers me. I feel like they wouldn't be a problem but at the same time if everyone in the class is one step from BB and then are BB and I am the beginner it would seem a bit off to me. I do think they have some lower ranks but they weren't there for this class nor the outdoor class I attended. I do realize that I could have a better chance of learning with more advanced ranks around me but then when they are all kids it changes the situation a little. I am inclined to agree with you that the pushy sales tactics are suspicious. I do not appreciate feeling pressured and rushed into signing a contract which I will HAVE to pay no matter what. I think if it were not for the contract I would have no issue signing up and trying it out but the contract gives me a bad taste because if my suspicions are correct then I would be stuck at a subpar school for a year and a half, then have to go somewhere and start over again! Thank you again for the replies, I will definitely put some thought into this over the next few days, I may even try an introductory class at the other school and see how it goes.

Hey again everyone, it's been a while since I have posted, things have been fairly busy lately! I have FINALLY after years of wishing and hoping had my stars align and it looks like I will be able to get back into MA seriously! There is a dojo fairly close to my house that teaches Shorin-Ryu. The dojo is well rated and supposedly one of the top ones in the country. I got an email from them last week with an amazing introductory offer and I took them up on it. I got 3 classes and a T shirt for $20, I thought it was a pretty good deal. I have done 2 of the classes now, the first was an outdoor training session in a local park and was pretty good thought the CI wasn't there, the class was lead by a teenager who is almost ready for BB. I went tonight to my first class at the dojo and I had a few observations. Firstly, the adult class is all teenagers and they are all brown belts (1st kyu) and prepping for the big test. The dojo is fairly clean and reasonably spacious. The CI is very interactive but not very strict, there was a lot of laughing and carrying on in the class, and there seemed to be no order at all, we didn't even really fall in or anything, we just sort of made a line and that was that. My old school was very discipline oriented, this one doesn't seem that way. I know this instructor is a salesman who hustles. He goes to all of the local schools regularly to do demos and sends fliers home with kids, mine have brought them home several times. I walked in to a conversation he was having with a couple of ladies and he was really pushing, in a nice way but you could tell he was trying, maybe a bit too hard. As far as pricing goes, I'm really not sure.. He only offers contracts of 18 months length. The prices start at $99 per month for 1 class per week, for $139 per month you can do 2 per week. He operates 4 days per week. My old school charges $89 per month and you can come as often as you want and the price includes access to the gym in the front of the studio. I could walk back into my old school as a black belt and instructor or into this one as a white belt. That doesn't bother me that much but I feel almost like this is teetering on the verge of being a Mcdojo. The biggest benefit of this dojo is that he has a family plan where you pay for 2 people and everyone else is free, so I would be looking at $198 per month for 5-6 people at 1 class per week, so it's not all together terrible. My old school offers half price for everyone after the first member. In that case I would be looking at $200 per month but could go as often as I wanted to and would not be in a contract. The only issue there is that it is much further away and would be somewhat difficult to get to on time. There is one other option which I have not yet checked out, which I may look in to before I make a decision which I have to do by next week in order to get 50% off the down payment on the contract.. So, what say ye? Is this something I should go for, or keep looking? Plusses, family plan, close to home. Minuses, mostly teens in the adult class, all students in class will be black belts in 6 months or less (except me) and 18 month contract.. Thank you for your opinions.

Add small amount of starch to wash load? [urlhttp://https://www.ehow.co.uk/how_5989871_add-rinse-cycle-washing-machine.html[/url] I'm certainly going to try the starch. I think it's about the only thing I can do. The dogi shrank a good bit when I dried it for 15 minutes and now it's at the point where it fits perfectly, so any more shrinking just won't work!

The only concern I have is shrinking. The dogi fits me like a glove, if it shrinks any I won't be able to wear it!

Thank you for the info, yes this is the shureido I am asking about. It is very very stiff, as far as wrinkles go. It's funny because the ronin brand is much stiffer but it didn't wrinkle at all, the shureido is softer but it wrinkled, go figure! I actually fold mine like #1 in the link you posted. I actually did what you said, washed cold, pulled it then I dried for maybe 15 minutes and then pulled it right out and hung it up, extremely wrinkled and still wet 2 days later! Guess it'll just take time. Thank you to the other posters. I will try the starch method.

Hey again, I'm having an issue with my dogi wanting to wrinkle. Normally I wear black and red and they don't seem to be that bad but I have recently purchased a white one and this thing wrinkles like crumpled up paper! I washed it and dried for a just a few minutes so that it did not shrink too much, I pulled it out and hung it to dry completely and it was horrible! I ironed it and still it is quite wrinkled. So, what's the secret? I hung dried it for 2 days and still the lapels were wet, it wrinkled. I certainly must be doing something wrong! I will mention that being new it is a bit stiff, maybe with time it won't wrinkle so badly, I know my old century's don't do that. Is there anything I can do until it loosens up so that it doesn't look so bad? Any help appreciated as always. Thank you for looking.

My school did this when I was coming up, and I think they still do. The only time that we every HAD to wear the GI top was on a test. I sort of got used to wearing the shirt and found that it took me a little time to become acclimated with the GI top again when I had it on.

Congrats sir, apparently "the proof is on the forum!"

I recently watched a video of some Okinawan masters training and there were FIVE red belts in the room along with 3 renshi belts, amazing to see so many high ranking individuals in the same room. On topic, isn't this what Chuck Norris did? He's the one and only 10th dan in UFAF, so who graded him?

My school was all white for lower ranks, unless you were in the black belt club which allowed you black pants with a white top. One instructor introduced all blue uniforms but those didn't last very long. Once you make the dan ranks you have a lot of leeway, you are at that level allowed to wear a red top, which most do. You can also wear the white top with black trim which I do. When I started an all black gi meant CI but that is relaxed now and anyone can wear all black, I have also seen some wear blue tops with black pants. It's very nice having the choice! They have never restricted the brand or cut, but when testing one must wear a traditional long sleeve do-gi. Most students wear Century because that's what the school sells.

I definitely went through that argument myself. The hardest thing is trying to find someone who has actually had hands on both of them. I think in the end I read enough posts to decided to go Shureido. I think also the fact that their belt is commonly referred to as the best on the market helped. I wanted them to match, how GQ of me! The stocky part too, I am not nor will I ever be a tall skinny guy, even when I don't have the extra pounds that my injury has given me I am always a stocky guy so reading that Shureido was cut a little fuller than Tokaido helped me to make the choice, that and the $85 price difference in favor of Shureido helped too! [/u]

Hey everyone, I have been asking around for a while about the Shureido K-10 Gi, lots of questions about various things, well the time has finally come and I was able to order! I got it from discountmas.com and I am pleased with my transaction. The Gi is unbelievable, it is of the highest quality imaginable, it it much better than I even thought it could be! The thread work is perfect, the material is absolutely amazing, has the light blue tint to it, absolutely beautiful. I am amazed at the feel of this gi, the lapels feel stiff as a board but soft as a pillow, it's hard to describe. I would say without doubt that it is worth every cent that I spent on it. While ordering the gi I also got one of their black obi's as well and again, just unbelievable. The quality is perfect, the belt is heavy, it weighs easily double or more than my old century belts. I am just blown away with how well made these items are. In fact even the material itself is just mind boggling. While I ordered these I also purchased a Ronin brand gi in black. I wanted to mention it here too because it is equally impressive. The material is a little rougher than the shureido, and it weighs more. It is stiff when compared to the Shureido but it is also very very well made. I don't think you could possibly do better for the price of this gi, if you are in the market I would recommend this brand for sure! I will caution you however that these do run quite large. The shureido is a 4.5 and fits very well but the Ronin is a 5 and is much too big. I am 5'7" and 215lbs (injury has really packed it on!!) I won't bash any brands out there but as an American student I grew up wearing century, there is nothing wrong with this brand and always wearing century you get used to it and think that it is what they are all like. I can say with certainty that there is no comparison. The century gear is good but the Japanese gi is at least 1,000 steps above. If you want something that is the absolute best of the best, you just cannot go wrong with Shureido, pricey but worth it. Here is a photo I snapped, you can really see the quality of the material and thread, notice the blue tint! http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/chiliphil1/IMG_0119_zpsczl7ek46.jpg

Yes, I agree with you here. I know my posts sound like it but I am not "die hard loyal" to this organization, there are 2 reasons in which I am seeking them in conjunction with my opening of a school. Reason 1, this is the organization in which I hold my rank, therefore I am eligible to be an instructor, just not sure about a CI, reason 2, if I do not have the approval of the sanctioning body I cannot award rank, though I guess I could but there would be nothing to back it up except for me. I would rather be able to hand out rank which is tangible and recognized. In addition to those reasons if I did not have the sanctioning body behind me, neither myself nor any of my students would ever be able to go past the BB rank. If I stepped away from them I would be at my current rank forever and since all dan ranks are given by the board none of my students would be able to go further.. The other side would be that I could do a "rankless" style where people just train to learn rather than earn rank. This could work in some cases but I don't think I could get or retain kids when I tell them that the only "award" they get is knowledge.. I think kids need rank and belts to keep their interest..