Wastelander

Welcome to the forum!

Out of curiosity, when you say "Kendo sticks," do you mean shinai or bokken? Bokken will eventually break, and you have to be careful of flying shards of wood if you are doing contact drills with them. If you break a shinai, beyond just splitting the bands around the bamboo, I will be quite impressed.

Some people simply don't enjoy the practice of kata, no matter what--my wife is one of those, for example, and is willing to hit things or learn self defense techniques, but refuses to actually practice karate because of the kata. Other people tend to hate kata because they don't see the value in it, which seems to be where you might be. I tend to see that the most in Kyokushin practitioners, too, honestly, because your kata just have no real connection to your kumite, and kumite tends to be the main focus for a lot of Kyokushin people. As has been mentioned, the best way to appreciate the value of kata is to learn practical fighting applications for them. Your instructor may or may not know these applications, but the only way you'll find out is to ask, so I recommend that you do! If you don't get satisfactory answers, or you simply want more points of view, then doing your own research can help with that. If you do decide to do your own research, I have some recommendations for you. First, I recommend that you read "The Way of Kata" by Kris Wilder and Lawrence Kane, as it will give you a good understanding of the basics of kata bunkai (analysis). Since the kata curriculum of Kyokushin is a mix of Shotokan and Goju-Ryu, you'll have to do research on two systems to find applications specific to the kata you practice. Iain Abernethy does Wado-Ryu, but it is quite similar to Shotokan, and so you will be able to find connections to your kata from him. You can also check out Kissaki-Kai methods from Vince Morris or his students, like Don Came, as they are Shotokan folks. For the Goju-Ryu side of things, I highly recommend material from Masaji Taira and Paul Enfield. All of this should give you a good, solid base of material to work with that connects to your kata.

While that would certainly have some hand conditioning benefits, and I've seen people do this, I find that it doesn't serve the purpose a makiwara is supposed to serve. Because it's mounted on a swinging (or free-standing bag), it can only resist with its weight, instead of with a spring action. This means that once you are hitting hard enough to make the bag swing away from you, the resistance diminishes instead of increasing like it does with a proper makiwara.

Welcome to the forum!

Well, I don't know him personally, but he has come up in my browsing before. He has an awful lot of ranks that can't be verified, and some of them are in styles that don't generally do belt ranks that way, but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't legitimate. In checking his website again, I see he still has those listed, although he's apparently been promoted to BJJ black belt since I last saw it. If I remember correctly, he is associated with a number of known, legitimate martial arts instructors, so I would say that he is at least knowledgeable and skilled enough to be teaching. For the karate side of thing, I believe it's largely based on Suikendo, which is Yamashita Tadashi Sensei's personal approach to the Shorin-Ryu he learned in the Shorinkan (my organization) from Nakazato Shugoro Sensei (the founder of the organization). If you haven't seen it, it looks something like Shorin-Ryu mixed with American Kenpo.

Context is key. In our self defense/bunkai training, we never move backward unless it is a small slide to adjust for something, or we are pulling the opponent. As has been mentioned, this is important to end fights quickly, to avoid obstructions in the environment, and for when you simply don't have space. In sport fighting, however, there are a number of tactical advantages to be gained by moving backward for the right reasons. Resetting to catch your breath and get a better look at your opponent, adjusting distance to set up longer range techniques, and baiting your opponent into a committed attack for you to counter, for example.

I didn't have the chance to use it before so can I ask how ?! Well, I can't say I'm an expert, but I did put together this video a while back on some basics of working with the makiwara:

I'm afraid these are really no good for makiwara training--they don't have the right type of resistance. All they are good for is making a nice clacking sound and doing a little knuckle conditioning. I always recommend people build a proper makiwara instead of resorting to these.

It's certainly true that there is a level of ignorance involved in this type of situation--it can be very difficult to account for the needs of people that you simply don't encounter that often, and so people who spend a lot of time with LGBTQ+ members of society are more likely to consider their needs than people who don't. That's not necessarily malicious, as DWx says, but the problem may be there nonetheless. I feel we've done a pretty good job of being inclusive and accommodating in our dojo, despite being in a typically white upper class city. Given our location, the demographics that we can pull from are going to naturally lean toward white middle-to-upper class people. That said, we have a good mix of men and women in the dojo, from a variety of backgrounds, along with kids. My Sensei's girlfriend (who is a black belt in another system) is the co-owner of the dojo, and runs another business as well, so she does a good job of ensuring that the needs of the women in the dojo are addressed. We have never had a transgender student, that I am aware of, but we do have students of different races, ethnicities, religions, sexual orientations, and levels of disability, and we do our best to accommodate them while still teaching our system appropriately. We don't have locker rooms in our facility, but the bathrooms are single-occupant, and we have four offices that can be used to change in, all of which lock from the inside, so people can change alone. We have set up private lessons with students whose religious beliefs prevent them from training with the opposite sex. We have set up lessons in students' homes with specially cleaned equipment because of immune diseases. We have learned some American Sign Language to communicate with a deaf student. We have sheltered students fleeing domestic abuse. We have had students help with things at the dojo to make up for not being able to pay all of their student dues. Could we do more/better? I'm sure we could! As it stands, though, until someone brings a concern or complaint to us, how are we to know what problems to address? We would be happy to, but as it stands we are falling into the category that DWx mentions--we may be doing things wrong, but it's from lack of knowing that we're doing them wrong. As unfair as it may be, it is up to the people who need accommodation to let us know if they feel they are not being accommodated effectively, because our life experiences simply haven't given us the perspective to figure it out without it being pointed out, at this time.

Thanks Wastelander, seems like I have underestimated the dojo/instructors role ! It's certainly a major component, but you also have to remember that some instructors branch out far and wide, and can give you a broad spectrum of information, while others laser-focus on their system, specifically. You may get more or less of what you are looking for from your instructor, depending on what they know, but it's an excellent and important starting point!

I've certainly gained a lot of knowledge just through training and talking with my instructors, but that's been over the course of a little more than 10 years, now. Asking questions and listening to stories will get you a lot, but it will also bring up more questions. That's where independent research comes in--books, articles, videos, forums, etc. This also leads you to contacting people you might otherwise not have, and asking them questions and comparing what you do with what they do, and why. It's a natural evolution of training, in my mind.

Although I don't completely agree with you, I do thank you for your thoughtful write-up, MatsuShinshii! Personally, I see no problem with people trying to work out the truth of history. You are absolutely correct that we were not there, and do not have much in the way of solid documentation to point to for karate history, but that doesn't mean we must just accept what we are told. If we did that, we would just keep telling people that karate was developed by farmers to fight samurai, which is a completely false but widespread notion. I also don't think that this is necessarily an indication that we do not honor or respect those who came before. It is human nature to want to understand the past, and how we came to arrive at our present, and karate is not exempt from that. Now, that does lend itself to opinion and speculation, due to the lack of definitive evidence, as you mention. You even admit that your own point of view is, essentially, opinion and speculation, for the same reason. You have done your research, as have others, and you have all drawn your conclusions based on what you have found, even if you have arrived at different ones. To me, that simply means we cannot discount the possibility of either perspective, outright. We must weigh what evidence does exist and develop our own opinions. I happen to disagree with some of the "standard history" taught in my own organization, for example, because my research leads me to different conclusions. When asked about it, I will generally say "Well, commonly this is what is said, but other information suggests that this different thing may be true, instead," and recommend that the students do research for themselves. I certainly understand the desire to defend that which you believe to be true, and when someone claims that the style you've dedicated many years to studying isn't what you were told, that can definitely feel like an attack. That was definitely how I felt when I was studying Shuri-Ryu, and people told me it was something other than I was told. Now, over the course of years and research, I see what they were talking about, but at the time, it was hurtful. I don't think anyone intends to hurt others when they bring these things up--on the contrary, I think they are actually trying to help by providing you with more information on a subject that you are passionate about. I've trained and had discussions with several people, over the years, regarding Matsumura Seito Shorin-Ryu, although I don't practice it. What I have seen in my research, and learned from those discussions, has not given me any sort of definitive answer of whether Soken Hohan Sensei's claims were true or not. I think he was a very knowledgeable and skilled karateka, regardless, and passed down much of value. I don't know that I believe he learned it from Matsumura "Nabe" any more than I believe the stories of ancient masters learning from gods or shipwrecked sailors. Could it be true? I suppose, but without evidence, I can't say for sure. Could Shorin-Ryu have legitimate White/Whooping Crane material as a historical component of its system? Naha-te systems maintained a much clearer connection to their related Chinese arts than Shuri-te systems, in my opinion, but I suppose Shuri-te systems could certainly have the same type of connection I can say that if it does, I (and my Crane-style friends) can't see much of it left, with the exception of various collections of Hakusturu kata, which are hard to trace reliably, and verify the authenticity of. Gokenki was known to make up kata on the spot, when asked to teach people his system, for example, leading to a number of Crane forms that trace back to him, but with no real history behind them. Matayoshi Shinpo said as much, and actually did the very same thing, from what I understand. Does that make the material bad, or the people who taught it bad? No, not really. But I feel it's good to try to work these things out. When it comes down to it, all people are human--even karate masters--and humans have a tendency to forget, exaggerate, omit, lie, and make mistakes. That doesn't make them bad, or unworthy of respect, but it does mean that we have to take things with a grain of salt. As I said, I even apply this to myself in the system I actively study, so I hope you don't feel that this is any sort of attack on you or your style. I honestly can't even say with certainty that Itosu Anko Sensei trained with Matsumura Sokon Sensei, despite that being a widely accepted fact, for example. Be that as it may, I'll keep training, and studying, and researching. Maybe I'll find out that everything I've learned about the history of my style has been a lie. Maybe I'll find out that everything I've learned about it was perfectly true. Most likely, I'll just collect enough bits and pieces to decide for myself. In the end, that's all you can really do, but I personally encourage people to bring forth all the information and evidence and speculation they have, because without it, we can't develop an educated opinion. Again, I hope you aren't offended by this in any way--I truly don't mean any offense--and thank you for the discussion!

Welcome back to the forums, JZ! I did notice your absence when I hadn't seen any posts from you in a while, but I had figured life had just caught up with you, as it does with many of us, and the forum fell to the wayside for a time. I never would have imagined the struggle you were going through in the meantime! I'm glad you are back, and were strong enough to share your experiences with us!

Congratulations to everyone who won, and thank you to everyone who voted! I'm honored to be mentioned among so many great contributors here!

Thank you for putting this together, and thanks to Patrick for keeping KF running!

Welcome to the forum!

Welcome to the forum! As has been mentioned, you'll be hard-pressed to find a single book that encompasses all of karate history. That said, Karate 1.0 by Andreas Quast is the most comprehensive textbook of karate history I have been able to find. That book will give you a great deal of background information on Okinawan karate, but not as much on the specifics of Shotokan and Kyokushin, since those are Japanese developments. Still, it's an excellent resource.

If you were to change karate to a 90/10 split of grappling/striking components, you would have something pretty well indistinguishable from Japanese jujutsu, in my opinion, and that already has trouble being seen as valid for the reason that bushido_man96 points out--a lack of "rolling" and groundwork, generally. Now, in my dojo, we practice kakedameshi, or kata randori. This allows us to work close range striking, clinching, limb control, tuidi, and takedowns against a resisting opponent. Something that is often missing from karate training. We also tend to continue with grappling once we hit the ground, but that's because several of the instructors have experience with grappling arts (judo, jujutsu, catch wrestling, etc.) and we include that in our curriculum. It isn't technically a component of karate, even if we use karate techniques along the way.

Counter-productive? Not when used for its intended purpose--developing structure and power generation. If you use it just for hand conditioning, then yes, it can definitely be counter-productive. As it stands, I have found nothing that teaches proper structure for power generation as efficiently as makiwara training. Sure, you can develop power plenty of ways--mitts, heavy bags, resistance bands, etc.--but none of them teach you the technique of it like the makiwara does. As far as its design being obsolete, I have seen a number of alternative construction methods for makiwara that work well using modern materials. The key to the makiwara is its spring action, and I have seen people achieve this with everything from skis to actual springs. How it's made isn't all that important, provided it does what it is intended to do.

This video is, indeed, intended to illustrate a training concept, not a holistic training experience--this is simply one component to consider in training. Typically, the scenario being addressed by this is a situation that (hopefully) martial artists won't find themselves in, as it generally derives from a "monkey dance" scenario of some sort. We have mostly seen this in road rage incidents, but it happens in other conflicts as well. The idea here is to develop awareness--in live training, your partner won't always attack the same way, after all. This drill focuses on seeing the hand reaching for the hip or pocket, as a variety of weapons can be located there, and doing whatever you can to prevent that weapon from coming into play. This is just part of a larger defensive curriculum, which does include high-pressure attacks with training weapons, and a wide variety of scenarios, on top of an unarmed curriculum. We simply can't cover everything in a 3 minute video

I hesitate to call tuidi/torite/tuite an "art" of any kind, simply because that tends to make people think it is its own separate, standalone system of fighting, which is not its intent. Your comment about its "seamless flow with striking" is exactly why it isn't an art unto itself. It is a vital component to karate, and I will say that it is the "grappling component" or karate, but if you call something a "grappling art," they are going to think of arts whose entire focus is on grappling.

@Alan Armstrong - I'm not sure I would say that "punching with knuckles is proving to be less effective than palm strikes." I don't believe there are any real statistics for that--we'd have to decide on what "effective" was with regard to the strike, and how to measure it. That said, I am absolutely in favor of palm strikes for everyone when it comes to striking to the head with linear motions. "Fight bite" is a real problem to consider, as is injuring your hand with a lot of bone-on-bone contact with the skull. Punches to the body are great, though, and there are instances where I would punch to the neck or head in a bareknuckle situation. @JackD - I'm glad you're enjoying it! They are a great tool to have!

The concern about developing ugly callouses on the hands is one I have certainly heard on a number of occasions, but I don't personally find it to be much of a reason not to work with the makiwara. After all, the makiwara is for feedback, and developing structure and power. The conditioning is just a byproduct of hitting something that resists your strikes. From an historical perspective, it's important to remember that the vast majority of karateka were nobles or peacekeapers, in a culture where formality and politeness were paramount. They considered scars and callouses to be ugly, and brutish, so they were known to remove the callouses developed by martial arts training (both empty handed and with weapons). This is something that is even more easily done, today, with all of the cosmetic tools and products we have available. Additionally, one can add enough padding to the makiwara to take the edge off, without dampening the spring effect. I find that the sole of a foam flip-flop sandal will work, as will a piece of cheap martial arts floor mats. Any more than that and it starts to cause the makiwara to feel "squishy," which defeats the purpose. Between the added padding and the cosmetic treatment, people can use the makiwara effectively without making their hands look like Higaonna Morio or Shinjo Kiyohide. I hit the makiwara regularly, and barely do anything to take care of my hands, and yet I still keep the callous to a minimum. I also haven't seen any evidence to support the "makiwara causes arthritis" claim that I often hear, when the makiwara is used as intended, rather than for overzealous hand conditioning. A number of Okinawan karate masters hit the makiwara on a regular basis, and have done so for decades, while still becoming masters of Shodo (calligraphy) and otherwise maintaining the health of their hands.

Welcome to the forum, and welcome back to martial arts! Did you train with Joseph Walker in Peoria? I trained with his son, Joey, in Morton before I moved to Arizona and started training in Shorin-Ryu