Kirves

Icetuete: seems like the German system is pretty similar to ours in Finland. A website: http://www.mil.fi/english/

At first I thought about making this an actual poll, but then decided that it would limit the way I write the questions/options, so I post this as a standard post. 1. Do you personally have any kind of military training? 2. What kind? (if possible, post a link to the Service Website) 3. Is it common in your country to have military training?

Yes, I understand, but the very question in the topic was Judo or TJJ, danzan-ryu is not a TJJ but possibly a modern derivative of such styles. TJJ are styles that teach the samurai fighting arts, including katana, naginata, tanto, and so on. Most modern derivatives have dropped these traditional elements in favor of modern aproaches, thus no longer being TJJ. This by no means affects the effectiveness of a style. Just a matter of terminology.

Well, here's the graveyard: Inosanto's organization locations: http://www.inosanto.com/cgi-bin/database/a76b-7626.cgi Vunak's organization locations: http://www.fighting.net/instructors.php And then you have all the smaller organizations like JKD Unlimited (Richardson), et. al.

Phew! What a thread. JKD has no tournaments, but some JKD students go to MMA/NHB tournaments for getting outside-school sparring experience. JKD is not about accumulating techniques from all new arts, quite the contrary... (now this is what I was trying to say with the quote from Lee) It is about stripping away all the excess * from fighting. Getting down to the core of what works and sticking to it. Honing it until you breath and live it. Too many "art hoppers" say they do JKD just to hide the fact that they lack the discipline to follow any one discipline for the long run. That's not what JKD is. It is about following the personal path of what works for you and stripping away all other stuff that doesn't. JKD is above all, a philosophy, and a set of concepts. It is not just an MMA with a self-defence twist. It is all about following Lee's guidelines for finding the core fighting tactics that work for your personal and physical outfit in a real world fight.

I always thought that Danzan-ryu was actually not a classical style of JJ but quite modern in fact?

Yeah, Inosanto includes Muay Thai, BJJ, et. al. in his JKD mix.... Talk about full contact, eh? The difference between JKD and your standard MMA school is: 1. JKD Concepts as the guideline 2. JKD focuses on real world self-defence, thus weapons and multiples are trained for

Lee said that JKD is not about accumulating, but about stripping away the excess.

The opinion depends very heavily on the JJ style. There are so many different styles.

Which style(s) of TJJ is available to you?

Yes... from the beginnings of time all the militaries have chosen to send their soldiers into local pubs for nights of partying instead of training them in martial arts, as we all know the martial artist will lose a fight to a bar drunk any day, right? Gimme a break. Ever heard of "the delivery system"? Check out some of Matt Thornton's writings if you don't know the term as it relates to the martial arts.

No shuai shiao available here. Judo is one option, but I dislike the fact that all the beginners here are 10-15 year old kids. There rarely are any adult beginners (I've asked about it).

There's only one Aikijujutsu school here (the mainline of Daito-ryu) and they don't do much alive training against resisting opponents.

Laws and regulations vary so much according to where in the world you are, that I wouldn't come here asking for actual legal advice. Especially as there aren't many here knowledgeable about the laws in my country. The training we have gotten basically adressed just that: the law. We get minimal physical training at all, so we are on our own as far as fighting capabilities are concerned, but we do get the necessary legal lessons. And then there's the way the law is commonly interpreted, of course. When the law says "one can use necessary force" it is up to the court to say what is necessary and that is where I got the "rules" mentioned in the first post of this thread in the first place. I didn't make the rules up, it is how the court seems to see things for us security people here. For example, there have been some cases where a guard or police officer has used a choke hold or a headlock, and the suspect has been crippled or killed for some reason (either too much force was applied or for too long, or the suspect in a drug-assisted-rage just resisted too much for his own good), and for that reason we are quite easily screwed if the doctor finds any signs of post-choke trauma in the suspect. On the other hand, breaking the suspects arm in an arm lock / arm bar is no big deal, as it seems easy for the court to understand that the guy had an option of surrendering, yet decided to struggle and that is why his arm was broken. Yet nobody's life was threatened because of that and so the guard/police didn't do anything to blame them for. So what I'm looking for, is essentially a one-on-one art (if there is a multiple situation, I get backup and will use my baton/spray), where I get to learn all kinds of takedowns, armbars, locks and holds, and I prefer training against resisting opponents.

Only thing helping you when a gang wants you down to the ground is having very fast feet.

Let's not get too personal or emotional about these issues, gentlemen.

Don't get fixated into something like "I'm a lead leg kicker". Learn to fight 100%, not 25%.

I have done kali with heavy emphasis on strikes to weak targets, plus I have done Kyokushin karate with absolutely no grabbing allowed of any kind (IKO 2 kind when that was existant). I also have other experience, but it is not continuous, just "spent some time there".

One of the known "habitual" attacks is just plain "run and tackle". You see it everwhere from schoolyard to ice hockey game. One of the common attacks by an untrained attacker is just tu smash into your midsection and tackle you down. Maybe he doesn't do it with the skill and finesse of a trained MMA fighter, but it is just as common a move as taking someone into a headlock, or throwing the infamous haymaker.

When you are taken down (which is easy to do unless you explicitly train in takedowns and counters to them) you either grapple with the guy or get up. In either case, you need to know how to fight on the ground. Usually the people who want to remain standing up, also don't train in takedowns and their counters, though that is exactly what they should be doing if they really want to use the "I remain standing up no matter what" -strategy. Just my 0.02

Security. My previous martial training is mostly from standup styles and I find myself constantly in trouble as I'm not allowed to hit my customers and I'm not that comfortable at too close grappling ranges. There have already been two complaints filed about my actions by eyewitnesses who thought I handled a customer too roughly (shinkicked a customer's thigh to get him down, and punched one in the ribs). So I'm looking for "the optimal" tool for my job. At the moment I'm leaning a bit towards BJJ but still looking for second opinions.

Both MT and KM have the problem of looking like "he kicked and punched the guy" and that is what I must avoid at all costs when the witnesses are interviewed. I've seen a lot of KM and it is all "hit, hit, hit, and hit some more!"

It helps if a) you have had the same problem, or similar problem b) you have taught people and noticed they had a similar problem c) both

I don't assume a single attacker but it happens to be the norm (hmm... let's say 10 such attacks a week and one unordinary a month involving either a weapon or multiples, something like that), also I very often have collegues rushing to assist. Also, most occasions happen after a moment of video surveillance which means, if there are more than one target persons, more than one of us are going right from the go. Also, I am not unarmed, I carry a baton and pepper spray, wear a lightweight kevlar-vest, safety boots and cutproof gloves. But I cannot use the baton or the spray unless in a dangerous situation (against a weapon or multiple opponents). So, when I face the most common situation - one target - I am basically unarmed and have to abide the rules. When I face more than one opponent or an armed one, I can use my weaponry and I know there were more than one of us alarmed to the scene from the get-go.

Grappling didn't look cool, so it wasn't in the movies. We had all the spinning kicks and such stuff and that's what looked cool to the teenagers drawn to the martial arts. Now that we are used to seeing grappling arts, grappling actually looks cool - even in movies. The change would've come but only slower. We had the Gracie In Action videos for a decade before the UFC and NHB matches had already begun before the UFC so, things were going "there" already, but UFC made it big. An off-topic side note: it is funny how well known fakes, such as Frank Dux et. al., who claimed to have taken part in "secret" NHB tournaments, never described the tournaments having ground fighting elements, yet, after the NHB events started, we all saw how grappling ruled the rings. One more bit of evidence to support the fact that these people were fakes who never attended any "secret" NHB tournaments... One more note, more on-topic this time: Bruce Lee trained with Gene, and one of his most prominent notions was that you have to be able to fight in ALL THE RANGES, including grappling. So, yes, it was all coming, though slowly.