Kirves

I'm working on the basics of a new style. So very basic beginner stuff going on here.

Norris was Lee's training pal. Neither were the other's instructor per se. I vote for Norris, his movies have brought people to martial arts from 60's to the 80's and the Walker series in the 90's. His Kick-Drugs-Outta-USA is something much more than most other MA stars have ever pulled off. His no-nonsense, no-BS, no-self-proclaim, humble style earns him some extra points. He started with TSD but has studied other arts and created his own style altogether (Chun Kuk Do, a very modern mix). He has either a brown or a black belt in BJJ from Machados. Before he ever met Machados, he was already a judo expert under Gene LeBell (one of the greatest groundfighters ever). Norris retired as undefeated champ. He is not just a movie star, he was already a MA champ and star prior to that. He has been awarded 8th dan in korean styles by authentic Korean organizations. He has written a couple of inspirational books about zen in everyday life. He has never said a bad thing about any person or art. He is a genuine nice guy. What else can we say?

Has karate lost something? Read the text by McCarthy at this link: http://groups.google.fi/groups?dq=&hl=fi&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=sfnet.harrastus.itsepuolustus&selm=894e4a66.0307092033.60cfba89%40posting.google.com

I always say "I have done some karate" or "I often go to some karate classes when I have time". First, many people don't see karate as "tough" at all, so they don't get intimidated or feel they need to say anything. If anything, they underestimate it and say "oh, that stuff, you know it doesn't work in a fight" to which I reply "I just do it for the fun and sport of it, I'm so lazy I have to do something and I like karate". Then I make them talk about their stuff and knowledge and I just "ah" and "ooh" about it. Nobody loves to talk about themselves as much as a martial artist who thinks he has found the best art. I try to keep low profile about my MA training and when I tell about it, I use the household name "karate" (though I have trained in several arts) so I don't have to explain anything, people just go "oh, that" and they drop it as it's probably a boring subject to them.

If there is Kyokushin or Ashihara karate available, then you might want to check them out.

Highschool/college wrestling may be huge in the US but it is non-existent where I come from. I have never even heard of it outside the MA forums on the Internet. I don't even remember ever seeing it mentioned in any American movie or tv-serie I've seen. I have seen some Highschool/college football players, but that too is something we don't do here (in my language, your football game is actually referred to as "American Football" and when you say "Football" in here, it is always understood without exceptions as "Soccer"). We don't have any combat sports in school. The only place where "everyone" learns any fighting is the military service (mandatory to all males here) and there you are taught some quick&dirty stand-up fighting tactics.

Most students are quite satisfied with the results they see at the WC school. They first go there and lose to everyone. Then they learn and start getting a few strikes in. Then a new batch of beginners come in and they notice they can beat the crap out of them. So they feel confident from their personal experience at the school. When you train for 10 years, you get to spar against dozens of new batches of untrained average joes and you see how good you become during the years. You also see how difficult it remains to beat those ahead of you. I find it easy to understand how someone is satisfied with just that confidence.

Okay. The way I understand it, the claim that it works for the street means it works against mostly untrained, or at most poorly trained opponents. When it is said it doesn't work so well in the ring, it means it is not so good against a professional MMA fighter. (You do know, the difference between an untrained thug and a pro MMArtist, don't you? The untrained street thug attacks with single attacks instead of blitz combos, he attacks with silly things like haymakers or soccer kicks, pushes/shoves or simple headlocks with no idea how to continue or counter move. The trained MMA fighter does the exact opposite. Generally the WC people train with the former, not the latter opponent in mind.) Perhaps WC could work in the ring too if trained properly but we have seen so few examples that the jury is still out. One or two incidents are too few to judge the whole art by. The fact that the art is marketed as a self defence art, makes in unlikely that many "pro NHB fighter wannabes" will start with WC anyway soon, so it may take some time till we see if it can work in the ring or not.

First of all, I never said I don't train groundfighting, just said I haven't been taken to ground in real life. Don't be so confused, many of us do it just for the sports and fun of it. Does tennis prepare you for groundfighting? Does boxing prepare you for groundfighting? Does skateboarding prepare you for groundfighting? No, so why bother? Because it can be fun. By saying "blind faith" what do you mean? Faith as in "it will work on the streets"? Then you are talking with the fear aspect in mind again. I don't train because I want to be able to fight on the streets. It just happens to be a nice side effect of a fun hobby/sport. I missed that one. Good to know it has happened. I would believe the kick wasn't fully "on target", as some of the guys I know can break baseball bats with their roundhouse kicks - I personally wouldn't want to receive that in my adam's apple with full power. I managed to find a couple of sites agreeing with you about the first UFC having only two rules. But how many WC guys fought in those events?

I think we need a better source than that, as that release doesn't at all say that he added those rules. It only says he set up the new MMA rules which included these things. It doesn't say they didn't exist in the previous rules. Maybe we can find a set of the older rules somewhere on the net?

I have never had to go to the ground even I have fought both in civil and on duty as a security guard. I have never been attacked by a trained fighter. I have never gone to the ground. I have never been attacked by a sober person. Of course it depends on where you live and where you work or hang around, but many of us can succeed with stand up stuff. Not everyone is walking the streets afraid for their lives. Most people who study martial arts never get attacked on the streets, it is the "what if" situation that may or may not come. If you want to be absolutely sure, then you have to also wear bullet proof vests, cut-proof gloves, a helmet, a handgun and drive an armored car. You can never be 100% safe so you draw the line personally how much you are going to fear and that's it. I never saw throat punches in any UFC I saw. Granted I haven't seen all of them, but if they were legal, you'd think people would use it at least some times. You know what happens when a pro fighter punches to the throat, perhaps several times? Even people who aren't pro fighters, often kill their opponents with that.

True. In self-defence (as opposed to sport) arts, you first learn how to defend against one untrained attacker. Then you learn how to defend against multiple untrained attackers. You don't fight against untrained attackers in the ring. And most people aren't afraid that they are mugged or robbed in the streets by the latest UFC champ, so many of us are content with learning how to beat an untrained average joe who is probably even drunk when attacking us.

A quote from this site: http://www.wrestlingkingdom.com/ufc/ufcmain.html

I never saw the UFC where throat punching was legal. Perhaps the WC guy was not as good fighter as his opponent? WC training usually includes stuff like multiple opponents, weapons disarms, tactics (positioning relative to environment), law issues (what to say/yell before, at startup, during and after the fight to avoid getting prosecuted) and such things most sport arts don't cover at all.

WC mainly does trapping with intention to punch to the throat and neck (with fists, open hands and elbows) + seeks possibility to break the opponents knee. Add to this some extra tactics not used so often and you've got the basics of WC. The Wing Tsun guys talk about "universal solution" because that is what WC goes after, they enter to touch, never release the touch ("sticky hands") and do their trapping techniques to find openings for attacking the weak points, mainly throat, neck, eyes, groin and knees, striking with fists, elbows and knees with maximum force to break the targets. And they do it while trapping, as much in rapid fire succession as possible.

Gensei-ryu Karate (traditional with acrobatic "kung-fu-like" tactics) Ashihara Karate (very modern Kyokushin offshoot with no traditional kata) Yuishinkai Karate (pure traditional bunkai) Shorin-Ryu (Shukunaihayashi) (pure traditional bunkai)

Just google for "Miyamoto Musashi". Some cool links: http://www.musashi-intl.com/english/musashiwho.html http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1705/musashi.html

I use Kirves as my nick on all the internet forums. Kirves means axe in Finnish. When I first needed a nickname for a forum, I lived at an address on Kirveskatu (= Axestreet) and I kinda thought it'd do.

Hmmm... Who is the second greatest... I think Bruce Lee might be, as everyone knows Miyamoto Musashi is the greatest martial artist of all time.

Shotokan has split into many factions with differing rules, but full contact bare knuckle fighting is very rare nowadays in Shotokan tournaments. Another plus for Kyokushin: it performs rather well in open full contact and even some NHB arenas. See K1 or Sabaki tournaments for more info. Kyokushin has lots of similarities with Shotokan, but adds stuff from Goju-ryu, which I count as third plus.

The meaning of wearing a brown belt: You are cannon fodder when someone comes in to challenge your dojo.

Hey MuayThaiFighter: your list of techniques is found in many arts besides Pancration.

A good quality ear protectors are available at http://www.fightingsecrets.com/ and no, I am not affiliated with the site.

Okay, let's hear them. First would you start by listing all the techniques that this person is proficient with?

Draeger once said, if he had to choose between a karateka and a judoka, which one he'd rather take with him to a dark alley (where they might be attacked by some people), he said judoka.