masterphoenix

Excellent points, especially the first one. I always tell the younger black belts who get frustrated with teaching some of the orientations that it is always easy to teach the talented students. Teaching everyone else takes someone special. my master instructor always says that to the new instructors, its not the good kids you have to worry about, and pay the most attention to, its the weakest kid you should be working more with. and he's right! A hard lesson. After many years of teaching, I had reached the point that I was focusing on the good students to be more time effective, and backing off with the more difficult ones. I really felt that was the right thing to do for the amount of time and resources I had. Then one day I was chatting with an instructor whose practices I honestly felt were a little less than respectable. I mentioned that philosophy, and he told me that in his view, if we weren't making consistent attempts to reach the more difficult ones as well as the good ones, a lot of our philosophy was just talk. I realized that the turnover of students and the difficulties of teaching had jaded my thinking somewhat, and I was humbled through learning this from someone I had little respect for at the time. It's true. If we just cater to the fast learners, we are really coaching - offering ourselves based on ability and not on need. One of the great things about martial art is that no one is warming the bench because if they play, we might not "win." This point you guys have mentioned is an important one, and very important to the specific kinds of personal development we have to offer over conventional sports. Kudos.

Well said, and simple to remember. I wish that kind of teaching flexibility came easily. It's very hard to teach some people even when they sincerely want to learn. ADD/ADHD, Autism, Asperger's, and ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder I think? Fairly new, but WHOAH... They will argue with you, insult you, walk away from you and all sorts of other stuff.) can be very challenging, in addition to finding ways to teach the average student in class.

I'd make the point here that what is possible or impossible exists only in our minds. EVERY style is made up, and each of them that exists today as a "traditional" style can be traced back to beginnings in other traditional styles. In each of them that I have ever studied or learned about, and every style in every magazine I've ever seen, there is a history which traces back to another art, or multiple arts. Someone comes along, practices that art, tweaks some things, or blends multiple arts together, and bam, you've got a new tradition. To claim that anything is really pure or that any possibilities are limited would be inconsiderate of the entire history of the arts. We understand purity to be our experience in a single art, but generally, we tend to forget that all arts are made up, and all rank is made up. Therefore, there really are no limits to what is possible. Bruce Tegner seems keenly aware of this in his early 1980's books where he specifically tells people that a coach or person with athletic background could certain supervise or teach techniques from the book and award belts using preferable standards, but with the understanding that these belts have significance only within that group, and may not carry any clout or respect to other people. It is important to realize that it's all made up, and all ranks, standards and styles have drawn from each other, and began in someone's mind. The compilation and reformation that is my style just happened to begin with me, at this point in the stream of time based on what I have experienced, liked and imagined to be helpful. In that, it is no different than any other style. It is complicated, I grant you that. Easier to be an MMA with no rank, or a traditional style, as far as seeking affiliation and support. But these are not my ways. As for getting all masters to agree on something, that wasn't even done by the JKA themselves, nor by anyone, nor is it necessary to form an org. I could form an org myself just by saying I'm doing so. The fact that the JKA has a great deal of support and unity only represents the extent to which people found them helpful, supported them and joined for unity, nothing wrong with that. But again, whatever exists is a product of our imagination and preferences anyway, so it's not necessary to feel (nor practical as you suggested) that everyone must like or prefer what you do. You simply need to find like minded, qualified and sincere people you can contribute to, and who improve your own journey in some way. Those people are out there, and helping other people. I've seen it happen, and I've experienced it with a few organizations in the past. In my case, very little that is contained my art was actually created by me, it's more a compilation. There are plenty of organizations out there who deal with mixed styles, plenty. Simple internet searches such as "black belt testing membership all styles" or "mixed martial arts certification black belt" will reveal tons, although you'll have to sift through the hits to find the orgs accepting and testing people of various styles. The problem, and why I was seeking help on the board here is the quality. 99% of the orgs I've researched are ran by people whose own paperwork and quality is very questionable, whose practices are unethical for me personally, or who are obviously selling rank. Most won't even reveal any history about the person running the org or tell you where he got his rank. It is a complicated situation and one not easily resolved, which is why I asked for help. As you suggested, one strong possibility is to keep pursuing one of the traditional styles in which I am ranked and to use the highest rank as my rank in my own system. I am definitely not one to call myself a 10th dan because I started a different style, or look for someone to write me a 10th dan certificate. The other possibility, and the one I prefer, is to find people already dealing with this kind of situation or teaching mixed styles themselves, and to establish a relationship for mutual benefit. I contribute and support their efforts, and they gain experience in dealing with higher ranks for their own rank/knowledge. Some organizations make it work well. Finding one I like that meets my standards is the problem. I may be forced to look for instructors who don't actually have associations, but would consider taking me on in order to find something workable. I guess we will see how it unfolds. Thanks for taking your time to chip in on the conversation.

I read and write Korean, and while I can't say that I've seen any connotation of "Father" in the term Sa Bom or Sa Bom Nim, maybe that's a cultural thing for whatever area he is from like our words have slightly different meanings between various regions sometimes. What I have seen is that Sa Bom seems to be a term for a legitimate teacher, and has no connotations of Master whatsoever. Kwan Jang Nim, which refers to a higher ranked teacher or a president of schools/associations is the typical somewhat equivalent term for senior instructor, and I've never seen it used by a Korean with less than 6th dan, but maybe it is. I like your instructor's ideas. Yes, in English, I don't care for the Master term. Americans seem to want status and rank as quickly as they can get it, even if they have to buy it in order to be "respected." What they've failed to realize is that this isn't respect, its a superficial adoration or submission from people who either don't know enough to make discernments or whose standards are poor themselves. My instructor, who was from Korea and continued to earn rank through Korea until he could go no higher, still uses and very much believes in this title. But his English is still choppy and I'm not certain he understands the term fully in English, nor the history of it in the United States - it's never stood for anything good in the history of this country's peoples. It means to control, dominate, enslave or equally as unhelpful "to perfect." The term was problematic for this country and it's status and rank hungry but work fearing population from the get go. I respect my instructor by submitting, and allowing him and his students to call me this, as I expect my students to follow my traditions. He allows me the freedom to do as I please in my school regarding titles and rank. I've grown fond of hearing him call me "Master" because of our relationship, and the respect he intends when he uses it. As I told my higher ranks, if you do everything you are capable of doing, and if your life reflects that martial art is not just a sport, but a Way, and if you've managed to find hope in the darkest of the world's realities, and if you've offered that hope to others, maybe during your lifetime, but more likely when you are gone, the people will lift up your name and proclaim you a Master, based on what you have done, as they have done with all historical teachers who have touched lives.

If I had answered this question more specifically, you might have understood my request better, sorry for the failure. I do teach Tae Kwon Do (6th dan legitimately, in person, with proper waiting periods, ITF style - 2nd dan in person with proper waiting periods WTF style, earned in a WTF school), but it is a sideline for me, and generally something I do mostly for kids. From 12 and up, I teach my own system, which is a mixture mostly of the Karate, TKD, Hapkido, Aikido and Jeet Kune Do, and some Pai Lum Kung Fu (or Pai Te Lum as it was later renamed) that I have studied, with a little Brazilian Jiu Jitsu thrown in. (These days you have to have that, all the cool kids are doing it! Seriously, we do very little of that because I feel being wrapped up with an opponent as a first option is a little short sighted, because multiple attacker situations preclude this - if you're wrapped up, their cousin is free to stomp you in the head or beat you with a pipe. So we try to focus on stand up, but when it goes to the ground, few people would deny BJJ is one of the best things to know, so that's a bolt on program for us, and not a focus. I blended all this together and worked to improve it since 1995. Essentially it's a street realistic (our attacks constantly vary, and we address abduction situations, attacks in a restaurant, potential rape, anything realistic, my students are always creating new scenarios) MMA with some tradition remaining (A few forms that I created myself which blend TKD, Nick Cerio's Kenpo, Tang Soo Do, and Kung Fu). I like the idea of mixing; I do not like the idea of losing the structured character building, respect and discipline that goes with a properly administrated rank system. This system has worked well for me, and although we only hit a tournament or two a year, we will always come back with several 1st and 2nd places in advanced divisions in the moderately sized tournaments we go to. In fact, the rated competitors have complained that we come once a year and take points they need for their ratings, even though these are open tournaments. Tournament competition is not a big focus for us, but it gives us some feedback and social consensus proves our style to be a highly respectable one, as we win more than we lose, and at least once a year some instructor will come over to inquire about our system and say they love it, but haven't seen anything like it. Describing it to someone familiar with martial arts but not familiar with me, I'd say the forms look like Kuk Sul Won forms but with a little more hard Karate movements than KSW. My instructor has a mixed system of his own which has proven very legitimate since the 70's, and also runs along the same lines, this is why I clicked with him so well. He allows me to run my style the way I want, and evaluates me and my students based on our performance, which is so closely related to the kind of kick-punch system he runs, which is also very solid. He has very large tournaments, and hundreds of his students have branched out nationwide to teach his system. Anyway, that's the long answer, and maybe more than you hoped to learn :0. In order to legitimately evaluate and understand what I do, an org would probably need a panel with various traditionalists, or an older, high ranking leader well-experienced with various styles (probably Karate/Tae Kwon Do experience would get close). I'm not a jack of all trades, but I have earned legit ranking in several styles directly under instructors (not internet) and I use all this to polish my own system to my preferences and priorities. My run with my current instructor since 1993 has been a wonderful and productive one. He has taught me about martial arts, teaching, and teaching as a source of income. He has corrected me when my opinions of martial art or teaching were poorly thought out, and provided guidance both in technical and mental arenas. That relationship is going to be hard to beat, but at 6th dan, I am quite capable of mostly running my own show. For the reasons I already expressed, I just know that all of us need advice, feedback and evaluation, and I will be seeking at least a respectable route to that, even if it does not provide quite the same sense of sentiment and connectivity that my current relationship has provided. He is about to be 10th dan with 55+ years of experience, and I am 6th with almost 25 years teaching experience, so I am definitely not looking to join under any 40 year old 10th dans.

Sorry, I should have addressed that. I'm not looking for a style specific organization, but rather one that accepts all Kick-Punch styles such as Karate, TKD, etc. Well not that I know much but the orgs that award rank to anybody from any style might not know much about every single style they award rank in. They may be knowledgeable about a handful of them but might not have qualifications in other styles yet they give out the belts. I used to see adds in a TKD mag over here for a guy that had TKD ranking, maybe some style of Karate too but that he would award rank in styles of Kung Fu amongst other things. IMO its pretty redundant to be awarded a rank in TKD by a Judo guy who knows very little about TKD and vice versa. If it was me I'd want to make sure that whatever org I was joining had at least a couple of high ranking, respected TKD masters. Adds a little legitimacy to the rank. I'm not sure how the rank being awarded by a Judo person is redundant, as that really means to do something over and over again to the point that it is meaningless or loses its effect. I guess you'd have to explain what you meant there, unless that was just a momentary type o or word swap. Everyone has their own opinion about this and I'm not really interested in the anti-organization arguments, which is why I asked the specific question I did, seeking a positive, specific opinion from someone having a positive, specific suggestion. I've heard both sides of the argument for almost 30 years now, and for the nearly 25 years that I've taught about 3,000 people. I've seen very good organizations in Japanese/Korean arts do some very helpful training and promotion of instructors in a variety of styles, and it sometimes works out nicely, depending on how they do it. The fact is that many people are mixing styles, or find themselves orphaned without an instructor, and looking for some true leadership and ability to advance as their students push their own rank, and this is where the specific kind of organizations I mentioned can be helpful under a person or board with good standards and ethical policies. In a perfect world, we'd have someone directly over us who is high enough ranked to test us in our specific styles, and experienced enough to challenge us to a higher level of personal growth. This isn't a perfect world. Yes, we've all heard the horror stories of 17 year old applying for 10th dan certification and receiving it because no one asked their age, or people certifying their cat just to prove a point, but this doesn't rule out the decent organizations which have standards preventing this. Our organization has received a number of transfer applications from unethically promoted students who are either keyboard warriors buying certificates online to make themselves sound grand, or legit people who have just fallen prey to practices that they may not realize are unethical. Some orgs have a very convincing spiel about why what they do is legitimate. The "Dragon Kenpo" program in which they mailed you a videotape along with a belt certificate without ever even seeing your technique (up to 3rd degree black belt - why they stopped there I have no idea) spawned a whole generation of people who learned from video and never once had anyone correct them or give feedback on their attitudes. Yet, I will have to say, when I read his spiel about why this was legitimate, it was very convincing, and I had twenty years in martial arts by that time. What he said made a lot of sense. His criticisms of traditional martial arts testing made a lot of sense - his solution didn't, and it was unethical, at least in my hopefully humble opinion. There is a middle ground where people with mixed styles or without an instructor can associate with like minded, quality, legitimate high ranks for mutual benefit, and this is what I am now seeking. It may take years to find. I am not in a hurry, as my next rank (7th dan) would be years away, anyway. In the meantime, I am teaching and promoting black belts and meeting my instructor's expectations as I should be. When he retires, I will need a new relationship for my own growth. I am seeking specific suggestions about organizations that accept various kick-punch type styles with good quality standards. One does have to sift through a lot of diploma mills, but there are good organizations out there providing services for kick-punch styles. I totally agree with what you are saying, and I will be very cautious, and perhaps downright sketpical about organizations claiming to service any style, unless they are having representatives from that style do the evaluations. As I've mentioned here on the board, my instructor is nearing the age of retirement, and the nature of our style being a mixture of traditional styles precludes me from seeking a traditional instructor in a traditional style. I thank you so much for taking the time to lend your advice. I am honored that you took time out of your day to type your advice, and I agree with most of what you said under different circumstances than mine. I am just hoping to stick to the original question at hand, and overcome what will be a future challenge for myself and my schools. I will need to establish a new relationship for oversight of my advancement, advice and feedback, in the same way that I expect my students to remain subjected to mine for their own advancement.

I know it's an old thread, but I wanted to chip in, just in case anyone else with similar trouble reads this. A few points here: 1. Criminal prosecution requires some proof, and the burden of that proof is legally on the accuser, in the US, anyway. You cannot prosecute what you have observed but cannot prove. This is why businesses are forced to find other reasons to let people go all the time. As I read this, it doesn't sound to me like you had proof that he was stealing or could trace anything to him, but rather that something was seen - one person's word against another's, no matter how true it was. 2. To suggest that a person with a family should automatically be prosecuted seems a little premature to me, until we know the amounts of money missing and some reasonable idea of what kind of family they are. Even good people can sometimes fall prey to temptation or find themselves under such dire circumstances that they consider taking what is not theirs. I went through this same situation with an instructor I was mentoring. I did certain things to help his school financially (I probably spent at least $1,000 myself on helping him get off his feet inside 2 years), but I received no profits and no reimbursement. He was in a bad personal situation with his finances (although one of his own making), and I was trying to help him see how to use his martial art talent to make a living. I would go over to his school and help with seminars, testings, etc. He lived about 75 miles from me, so my contact with his operations was once ever month or every few months, and I only saw the content of class, which was good. His students seemed to like him. He was not only a student, but also a childhood friend, and I loved him dearly. One night I received a phone call from his main assistant who was choked up and told me that after hearing me talk at their class about what it meant to be a black belt, he wanted to quit, because he knew his instructor was none of that. Shocked, I asked him what he meant, and he explained to me that equipment money and other monies were being abused. Some of the assistant's friends had joined and ordered gear, but never received their order. After 2 months of excuses, they quit. He was ripping the students off on equipment and other things and then telling them everything was backordered. After seeing this for years, his assistant called the company anonymously and asked if they had these items in stock, and of course, they did. Nothing was backordered. I found out that he had lost many students over this practice, and practices like it. The last belt test contained a bunch of people who weren't ready. I wasn't invited to this test, but happened to be in that town anyway and found out there was one, so I stopped in to watch. The students did terrible, and no one was ready. The instructor told me with disgust that he intended to fail everyone. I advised him that with such a flop, it was obvious that he had called a test too early. Turns out he did it to justify all these students prepaying for tests. The call from the assistant came that night after that belt test when I had returned to my home. In the end, he had ripped off all but two of his thirty or so students with equipment they never received or something else, while using my name and endorsements. After these things, what I found was an instructor who was liked by his students, and overall doing a fair job, but who had cheated almost everyone there over long periods of time. The assistant called the students and told them that we would be forming a new class in their town without the old instructor, as it was no longer possible for him to continue being affiliated with us. Here's the twist: Every student who wanted to stay in martial arts came to the new location, and even though I was higher ranked and had been teaching much longer, almost all of them quit over a period of 3 months with us and the class folded. I sent the old instructor an email, telling him what had taken place, and what I had found. I told him this had nothing to do with our friendship, and I did this with full knowledge that he might hate me, but I had to do the right thing. I explained to him that wanting more and wanting it fast, even at the expense of doing things the right way was not fitting of an instructor. I told him I was sorry for the loss of his extra income, but that he had brought it on himself. I promised that I would not go into great detail with people, but I would lie to them either. Since he had cheated almost everyone, and I needed to make it right, I think everyone was generally aware what was going on. It must have been a a very painful time for him. I know losing my friend and my hopes for him as an instructor was very painful to me. I always hoped it would motivate him to change. I think there are a few things to note here. 1. The instructor was a person who exhibited human weaknesses, not a bad person. In losing his students, he lost the supplemental income he had generated, and he was no longer endorsed by me, which meant that he lost his rank, although we did not go into detail with the students about the nature of the disconnection. I reordered everything the students were missing out of my own pocket and used their lesson fees to pay me back. Even though I was never really compensated for my time that way, I made it as right as I could. 2. Students do become attached to senior students and assistants. When you lose a teacher or helper who has become a fixture, it is almost a guarantee that you are going to lose the students who were attached to that person. Unless someone is hurting students, or has become hated by the entire school (in which case you would have already gotten rid of them), there is a percentage of that student population who clicks with and looks up to that teacher. This means that you are likely to lose more than just that family. We lost about 25 good students because they didn't like my class as much. They were used to a more laid back, relaxed and lower intensity workout. I mistakenly assumed that because I was more experienced and qualified, we could save them all. I was wrong. We lost them all, even with me and the old assistant combined on the effort. (I know this was a long time ago, so it would be interesting to hear how it all played out in retrospect.) There's a lot to be considered when something like this happens, but I don't think losing your compassion toward anyone is the answer. If this is a good person fallen on hard circumstances, calling them in one on one and telling them what you've seen and explaining how it affects everyone may be a better solution, if you can rethink your money exchange system to where this instructor collects no money. A locked dropbox in the school, or students mailing payments directly to the head instructor's home would stop all of that. I know this is not a perfect solution, but there isn't one. Martial arts has hopefully not taught us to condemn and discard human beings who can be rehabilitated, but that would depend on what you know of the person, and difficult for anyone here to say, really. It may be that legal charges are necessary in some cases that can be supported in court, and in others, more time, energy and hassle than it is worth, or uncalled for, based on the circumstances. In my case, I recalled one other incident many years prior of another instructor's money being slightly mishandled (but paid back) and this person's excuse was "the baby needed diapers." Of course, I had all the usual talks and reprimands, but the desire to get things the wrong way was always still in him, I guess. If you're still around, let me know how this worked out. In my case, I did lose my childhood friend, and after receiving my email, and even after all my help and my own money infused into his school, my friend went to his assistant's house and said it was being funneled through me, and I was basically the problem. I didn't realize he was this bad off mentally until that spin story, and trying to make me look bad. Even after he'd been caught he was still trying to make other people responsible for his circumstances and choices. Sorry for the long post on an antiquated topic. I just thought I'd share my experience in case anyone else faced this. Unfortunately, it's a topic that won't go away totally as long as money is changing hands.

Old thread, I know, but I wanted to throw in a different opinion. I totally agree with you Kitty. "Good" is pretty ambiguous, and most beginners would interpret that as meaning the kick is good. In addition, if you say that every technique, people become conditioned to it and it no longer has any meaning at all. I'm sure at the time he didn't realize how that came across, and probably developed it as a habit, especially since every kick is probably not good in reality, as you suggested. I wouldn't have found it disrespectful to approach him one on one and suggest that you were confused and ask for an explanation of how they use the term "good" in their school so that you will know what he means. IF you worded it well, this could sound more like you are asking to be corrected than accusing him of anything, and that is nearly always a helpful approach for keeping the peace.

I know this is an old thread, but I'm a newcomer and I thought I'd throw in my opinion. In my opinion, there isn't just one style, and people shouldn't try to be something they're not (unless of course you are working to overcome a weakness). If you have a funny personality, go with that, and in moderation, it will work for you. Your people will probably feel warm, welcome and relaxed with you. So there is a certain category of people you'll attract and do better with. If you like the more military style, and you r personality is upbeat and authoritative, you will do well with people who want hard discipline and want to be pushed. Being an instructor is similar to parenting, friendship and teaching styles all rolled into one - there isn't just one that works. Assuming you know your stuff, and that you are sincere, you can make teaching work from your own personality. What is important to understand is that not every personality will click with you, based on yours. I think everyone should start with their natural personality (assuming they are decent and knowledgeable people) and start fleshing out their teaching techniques and level of discipline they prefer to meet their own preferences and attract the kind of students they are comfortable having. What I have seen fail many times is people trying to be something they're not, or trying too hard to do everything exactly as their instructor did it, which just sets them up for comparisons which are rarely favorable.

Sorry, I should have addressed that. I'm not looking for a style specific organization, but rather one that accepts all Kick-Punch styles such as Karate, TKD, etc.

It is legitimate for a black belt to award rank up to and including one rank below himself in his style. This is particularly so because you are independent now, and no longer affiliated. Any rank exists only because of the endorsement of a party who has previously qualified for rank themselves. As a previous poster alluded, rank is only as good as the standards and only as respectable as the source. You do not need an organization for this. Sangmoosa.com carries olympic style rank certificates, and you can get them from Century and other places as well, or make them on your computer, or have them made at a print shop. Having said that, it is never a bad idea to be affiliated with someone, even if you are doing this on a small scale, and to have backing from higher ranked sources. You can become a member of a legitimate organization and have your rank and hers certified by parties who are recognized globally for very little cost. If you need help, feel free to PM me for suggestions.

I agree totally... we were taught that the worn out belt symbolizes a return to innocence, a sort of mindfulness of the dangers of arrogance and "full cup syndrome." The highest honor we could achieve was not a certificate, but a black belt worn completely white. You need good quality belts for this so they don't dry rot (I had one do this), and you have to make sure they aren't using brown filler, but we've never had any problem. I always chuckle when people tell me I need a new belt, and I have another chance to explain our traditions.

Practice your forms facing all different directions. You rarely ever know ahead of time how the rings will be set up, or which way you will be facing, and most tournaments seat the judges at various sides of the ring - hardly any way to predict what direction you will face. Have someone sit in a chair, and go up and do your presentation for them and your form, even if they don't do martial arts. The idea is to get used to making the verbal presentation and performing in front of people. We even allow the simulated judges to do things that are distracting to the student, because I have seen judges yawn, watch other rings, make faces, and other things. In order to prepare for the best possible performance, we have to factor in the possibility of distraction and address it beforehand.

Being an instructor of almost 25 years, I have seen this situation, and been involved in it. Depending on what kind of social outlets a person has, sometimes the dojo is their only form of social interaction. In my relatively small town, this is definitely the case. If you don't want to go to bars, you meet people at work and whatever activities you happen to be involved in. I wouldn't begrudge anyone the opportunity to make lasting friendships or explore mutual feelings as they develop, if this is their only real form of interaction, as it has been mine at times. However, for me, it has never worked. Maybe I made a few wrong choices. One of my best students was also a girlfriend for several years, and when things didn't work, it turned bitter for her and she struggled off and on with not wanting to come to class because losing the relationship was painful. All in all, I really think dating is not a good idea, but I've seen happy husband/wife teams who met through teaching, and instructors who have married students and continue to be happy to this day. I'd say be very careful, mature, sensitive and wise about these issues. Even between two decent people who truly care for each other, it can backfire with the loss of a relationship or the development of resentment. Then, you have not only a division between two decent people, but also between a decent instructor and student.

LOL.. perfect!!! I love this!!!!

My instructor (9th dan) uses these titles in his school (which my nickname reflects), but I don't. It's my opinion that calling someone "Master" in English carries a lot of unhelpful connotations and creates a lot of arrogance among some people (not all, of course.) I was talking with Keith Yates a few years ago (author of Complete Book of Tae Kwon Do Forms and other books. You can find him on amazon.com) and he told me that Master is a certification, and in his opinion, should not be used verbally to a person. He used the analogy of the "Master Electrician" or "Master Mechanic" which are levels of certification used to denote expertise, but which we would find awkward verbalizing toward a person. He agreed that in this country, in the English language, this title creates as many unhelpful perceptions as helpful ones, and at 10th dan, no one in his schools uses this title. In my schools, we prefer to use titles which indicate senior instructors, or simply call Masters the same thing we call black belts "Mr." or "Ms." Chuck Norris doesn't even allow his students to call him "Master." When the time comes that my instructor retires from teaching, I will not use this title any longer. I quit using it with my students long ago. Of course, you should always do what feels right for you. There isn't just one way of doing things. As for the technical end of the question, it is difficult for me to view being called "Master" at anything less than 5th as being legitimate. 5th seems to be the most common standard in my experience, although some use 4th and 6th also.

I wouldn't say that these are the only legitimate functions, nor that we can make that call for everyone. What is helpful and promotes quality practice I would deem as legitimate. The functions of associations are many, and the needs of practitioners just as varied. This is why there are different associations with different purposes. I've seen quite a few services and functions offered that I find to be legitimate which aren't mentioned here.

Unfortunately, the local embroidery companies suggested by previous posters often don't have needles thick enough to do the job because they are used to embroidering thin jackets and other materials. Here are good sources for embroidered belts. Eosin has the best quality I've seen, but be prepared to pay. Best has the cheapest prices, and their embroidery is fine. Eosin Panther Best Martial Arts Supply (sangmoosa.com) Goldentiger.com I use these three companies exclusively. Best has black belts that go up to 3.0 inches wide, I believe. We use 2.5, which looks great, and sets the black belts further apart from colored belts at 1.5 or 1.75 width.

Agreed. They are unparalleled in quality from my experience of ordering hundreds of embroidered belts over many years. The quality just hasn't been matched, in my opinion. They are pricey though... A decent black belt can run 100 if you have a lot of embroidery, but its well worth it, and a purchase you won't make often.

Very rude. This is easily solved by requiring students to purchase your gear.

I have had several dyed patches made with designsondemand.com, and they turned out really, really well. Actually my artwork looks sharper in dye than embroidery, believe it or not. You can order as little as 1 patch, but of course they get cheaper the more you order. The patches are good, they haven't faded after a few years, and the price is right. If you're looking to have some patches made for your leadership council, small tournaments or other functions for which you would only need a limited number of patches, this is definitely a good option. I'm considering whether or not just to switch to dyed altogether, as good as they look. One of the drawbacks is that you may be limited somewhat in the shapes unless you make a big order, or use standard shapes like circles and rectangles. They will have these patches to you very quickly (usually a week on mine), and the prices are extremely reasonable. I did one patch once and I think it cost 12 dollars with shipping. After say, 4-6, they come down to about 5 apiece. It's a great option for you to consider.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with previous posters about Tiger Claw's custom service. I was a good customer of several years and doing a lot of custom orders. I can tell you from personal experience that there is a lot of turnover in their help, which amounts to a lot of mistakes out of the TN facility. My t shirts/uniform screens were constantly messed up, my instructions ignored (I ordered online so what I asked for was documented), and sometimes I'd have to call several times over a month to get a quote on a custom uniform. Ever since Rand left TC, the service out of TN was terrible for me. I ended up cancelling my account even though I liked the products. If they were out of something, they just wouldn't send it, and wouldn't tell me. I would be expecting things to arrive for students, and when the shipment was late, I'd call only to find out they were out of stock and didn't inform me. One time my credit card had expired, and after a week of not receiving the order, I called only to find out they hadn't bothered to tell me. Other people may have different experiences, but this happened to me over a period of 2 years before I gave up on TC. Over the last year, every single order had at least one careless mistake on it. I can't recommend them, based on my experience. Products are good, but I had to switch to Asian World, and to some extent, Bold Look. BL has a lot of very nice stuff, they just don't have an online ordering system. Best MA supply is good to (sangmoosa.com) and they do embroidered belts well, and affordably, but again, no real online ordering system for instructors.

Does anyone know of any legitimate organizations for schools/instructors? I have an organization and instructor now, but he is quite advanced in age, and I am sure he will retire soon. At that point, I will be searching for another organization for my own rank advancement and certification in the future. I am looking to possibly join another organization in the near future as he retires. I am looking for something non-political, and definitely not a diploma mill, but an organization with respectable standards and waiting periods. I'd be open to any suggestions or links of specific organizations.

I agree with previous posters, and here some additional insight: You need to know what other people within driving distance are charging. Consider the economy of your area. Consider whether or not your lesson fees are priced right. If your lessons are high for the area, you may need to take it easy on testing fees. If you are priced just right, you might stay in line with what other people are charging. If your monthly fees are somewhat cheap for the area, maybe you can get more for testing. That being said, also consider your own rank. Most people would prefer to have a legitimate 8th dan signing their certificate than a 2nd, so if you are higher ranked, and teaching professionally, maybe you can charge a little more. While the certificate may function the same, there is added perceived quality of the endorsement when the issuer is higher ranked. Also, higher ranked instructors have more time, money, blood, sweat and tears invested in their own training, and perhaps deserve to be compensated a little better in some circumstances. As with everything else, you need balance. You don't want the students/parents to be resentful every time they have to write another check, so make sure you are really providing good services so valuable that no one minds spending a bit. Make it worth your while, and make sure that what you charge and what you do doesn't conflict with your conscience. You definitely don't want to have to give up teaching because you aren't charging enough. There was a time when I didn't charge for testing at all. I was very cheap on lesson prices, and I was not taken as seriously because there wasn't as much perceived value to what I did. Among non-martial artists, I think a lot of people assumed on initial inquiry that those who have the biggest buildings and charge the most must be better. I realized I was knocking myself out for nothing, and once I started charging reasonably, I found that almost instantly I was taken more seriously on initial inquiry. All I can figure is that people assumed my price must match the quality. I realized I was selling myself short and causing myself to work too hard in other areas to make ends meet. I had used a bad local economy as an excuse for many years, until a high dollar school came into my small town and instantly generated 200 students at 4 times the rate I was charging, plus test fees. I started looking around, and the big schools within driving distance were charging $70-90 per colored belt, for a total of 19 belt changes before black, and $200+ for every rank of black. I really felt the 70-90 was way too much for colored belts, so for me, $40.00 was a happy medium, and it's been reasonably more profitable since. This was many years ago, and my changes have worked well. Taking all of the above into consideration, I am well pleased with what I charge.

Both in martial arts and Buddhism it has been my experience that we all need teachers, not only for learning and correction of techniques, but also for supervision of our own attitudes/actions. Psychologically speaking, we know that we all have blind spots. A qualified teacher is very important in pointing these out or bringing us to alternative perspectives that will be useful in correction/improvement. If we are to be optimal students, it is very helpful to have someone qualified to observe our performance, and able to challenge said performance. For these reasons, I do suggest that all instructors have someone over them. If no suitable instructor can be found, I recommend being part of some community or organization which has quality standards and offers advice/interaction. Problem is, you have to be wary that you aren't joining an organization that just wants to sell you belts or certificates (most on the internet are like this, but there are a few good ones). I managed to find an instructor from Korea who was within driving distance, and accepting branch school members. He has quality standards, and isn't afraid to step on my toes with instruction. For me, this has made a great deal of difference, as I am able to test, obtain teaching advice, business advice, technical advice, etc. We can also participate in forums like this where we can get advice, share our knowledge and receive opposing viewpoints, this can be very helpful to our improvement as well. All things considered, I think it's important for the instructor to have an instructor for his own improvement, and also because it sends a very powerful message to the student - everyone can benefit from a teacher, and even the instructor is not an island. There is some manner of humility in that observation which can be a subtle help to the student's perception.