Chitsu

I noticed that also, didn't want to say anything - well done you. Chitsu

Angular Kinetic Chitsu

Physics tells us that there are three types of energy: Kinetic Potential and Rotational The corkscrew effect in the punch is where the third type of energy is realised. In application of course this process does not have to be a punch - but oi-zuki is as good a way as any to introduce it. Chitsu

Please do, I think it impossible that someone of Shiomitsu sensei's ilk would not know the pinan kata before coming to Europe to teach. Impossible!! Chitsu

Found this for you Krypto: Ten-I Ten-Tai Ten-Gi Chitsu

Where did you get that from? Chitsu Others have told me this plus Sensei Shiomitsu said it (sort of) in the below controversial interview as well as others: Traditional Karate: Is the Wado you teach now different from the early days? M. Shiomitsu: The Wado that I learned in university was basically fighting, no technique, it was always fight, fight, fight! I didn't know so many techniques. When I came here [England] I learned something from Suzuki Sensei but his style was not really Wado style, it was a hard way and what I do is a lot softer, like Ohtsuka Sensei's father did. People think I have changed but I haven't, I didn't have any experience at that time. I asked Ohtsuka Sensei 2nd what the Wado style really is, so that I could learn. Nowhere there does he say he wasn't taught KK. If you are going to take that view, it suggests he wasn't taught Pinan Kata either? No doubt, the universities of Japan at the time had something to prove to one and other - and this came in the shape and form of "Shiai". I bet the battles between universities like the Tokai and Nichidai were legendary. They also had rival styles to compare to like Shotokan, so what stands out is competition wins - stats win the day in Uni. Also no doubt – kumite is important to wado as a style – but there is a lot more to it. Chitsu

You raise an interesting issue here. I guess Ohtsuka had a balancing act to play, when it came to the disseminating of his art throughout the world in the early stages. Naturally, he was keen to propagate his Karate - and this is why he dispatched his top students of the time - i.e. the likes of Suzuki, Arakawa, and later Kono, Shiomitsu etc., to Europe / US in the 60's - to promote the art. Some stayed and then others followed. There is every probability that due to this, these guys had not achieved their peak of understanding and knowledge when they left Japan (remember they were only young) and then, they were going to lands where there were both language and cultural barriers to overcome. They were thousands of miles away from home, and had only their written notes and memory of what they had been taught to rely on (no video recording / internet to help them back then). Also, as I said in an earlier post, it is fairly well documented that Ohtsuka's Wado continued to be "refined" - so it is quite apparent where and at what stage these masters left Ohtsukas fold. I find it unlikely that the likes of Shiomitsu sensei left the shores of Japan without having been taught Kihon Kumite by Ohtuska - but in a way it doesn't really matter, because even if he didn't learn them at the point of leaving university he was obviously taught the principles within, well enough and he certainly knows them (and practices/teaches them) well now. I guess some of these early Wado sensei were able to/or wanted to stay closer to what Ohtsuka was continuing to refine - whereas others were left a little marooned. Chitsu

Where did you get that from? Chitsu

I see. Most Wado groups (at least here in Europe anyway) - have Ippon and/or Sanbon kumite in their syllabus - the contents of which tends to vary from group to group. Some also have Ohyo kumite (usually on the Suzuki lineage) and/or Kumite Gata. But what remains constant throughout all of the "Mainstream" wado groups is the practice of Kihon Kumite. To me, they represent the connection to Wado's "Shindo Yoshin Ryu" heritage and therefore the principles and stratagems that Ohtsuka intended to be transmitted into his karate. Without them - it's not Wado imo. It may be Wado based but not Wado. Krypto, you have one of the best Wado instructors in the world - right there in your doorstep in the shape of Norma Foster. She is based in Burnaby BC, and is the highest (JKF) graded female karate-ka in the world. https://www.canadajkfwadokai.org/about/board/president.php If I were you - I'd pay her a visit. Chitsu

Here is Sensei George Grimes - performing very good examples of Wado Ryu Kihon Kumite 1-10. Krypto, you say you have your own versions of these. Do you have a clip of them so we can compare? Chitsu

Hi Blade found a reverse angle in this clip: Technique is a Morote Soto-uke. Chitsu, Ps - personally not fond of the penguin wing-esque gi slapping and "Oss-ing" at the begining - looks very silly and has no basis in budo authenticity.

Yes, that is what I mean. Probably they are more the defining kata of Wado . Chitsu.

Yes and yes. Do you Practice Kihon Kumite? Chitsu

Krypto, Do you train in Wado? If so is it withnthe Shintani group. Chitsu

Hi Jeffrey, It is my understanding that Ohtsuka developed the Kata of Wado over a considerable length of time. He lived to a ripe old age and trained up to his last days. Over this time he continued to "refine" (for want of a better word) his Wado. This is evident when you compare the kata of some of his early students like Suzuki, to those who trained with him later on in life like Takagi. Subtle differences can be seen - but once again the "principes" remain constant. Bear in mind also, that Ohtsuka was a highly proficient and well educated martial artist long before he learnt the karate Kata of Funakoshi, Motobu and Mabuni. As a result of this expertise, he was able to develop a very unique and functional series of kata – with a specific modus operandi. And its these principles that are at the heart of Wado – if you change it you are no longer doing wado. What I see in the Katas presented so far, is just a sequence of moves that look a bit like Pinan katas, but just because they look like them doesn't mean they work like them. Here is a clip of Katsumi Hakoishi Sensei (one of Ohtsuka Sensei senior students and technical director/advisor to JKF Wado-kai) performing Pinan Yondan: And here he is again with pinan Sandan: You can clearly see the difference. Chitsu

Also not Wado-ryu. I suspect it is another offspring called "Heiwa-do". Chitsu

TBH I didn't think that was any closer Here's what stands out as obvious - to me anyway. First technique in Mahanmi Nekoashi - In Wado ryu this is generally taught with little or no movement off the centre line, and again in the second movement the weight does not shift too much. In the Shintani version posted there is a big "leap" at this stage. Then we have the Chudan Barai / Kick combos followed by Empi (elbow). In Wado ryu version - the hips do not turn into the direction of the technique (or as little as possible) - kick is a Yoko geri (side kick) albeit with foot in front kick position. Shintani Wado-kai version shows a clear turn into the direction of the kick. Blocks are Chudan where they should be Jodan and vv. Punches are Jodan when they should be Chudan. Also look at the Kakeuke (hook block) at the end. Wado ryu version is Jodan/High Chudan - with an outward motion. Shintani ones are Gedan? I could go on, but you get my drift. Key to Wado Kata is how it works your body - and why. Chitsu

That’s fine, but my interpretation is that of a technique using "crescent" kick at this stage of the kata (as it is done in the Kata) - not the pushing technique that he suggests. This represents the down side of Bunkai-jutsu imo - namely modifying techniques in Kata to so they fit into a convenient form. Its a kind of reverse engineering - starting with a scenario and working it back to how it could have come out of the Kata. I see little point in that - may as well join a Jujutsu club - they start with a scenario and work forward to a solution that isn't restricted - as a result, they are a lot better at it, than most karate-ka Don't get me wrong, Kaisetsu, Bunkai - call it what you want is a very important part of your karate kata training, but when you start deviating away from the original form - this is where things get a bit iffy imo. Also as I understand it, Mr Abernethys core Karate training is in Wado ryu - strange that, considering it is a style that does not utilise the process of Bunkai. Chitsu

I've got to be honest, and say that I don't think that the clip made a lot of sense to me. In the Kata (Seishan) the kick (he is demonstrating as a technique to the knee) is a "Mikazuki-geri" or crescent kick. In my experience, in seishan kata, it is a circular technique rather that a "tsuki" (thrust), and yet he seems to demonstrate it as a thrust (to the leg above the opponents knee) - which it would need to be to affect the leg sweep. I have a feeling I know where he got the idea from though. He was originally schooled in a wado group that continued to practice Suzuki sensei's "Ohyo Gumite". Its the spit of a takedown that this group does as part of their Ohyo Gumite # 7 You can see Suzuki sensei do this at 1:13 Have a look and see what you think. Chitsu

Hi Jeffrey, Yes, I was aware that Mr Shintani's group is not recognised by this governing body. As well as this, the JKF Wado-kai (the largest Wado-ryu group in the world (with over 800,000 members)) has a disclaimer at the foot of their website stating that Mr Shintani’s "Wadokai" group is nothing to do with them. But, governing bodies are just that, and are not necessarily standards bearers for quality. You asked earlier what I thought was best: - I think that's an impossible question to answer. How do you define best anyway - largest group with most number of students? Most competition wins? Who knows? A different question is perhaps which is more "authentic" (ie closer to the Wado that Ohtsuka developed)? And even that is subjective - but it’s probably more visible/apparent - if that makes sense. Chitsu

Kata.

Hello, I don't know the first thing about Isshinryu - but sometimes I think its easy to see the "corskscrew" punch as "exclusively" belonging to karate as a result of things like Itosu's pinan kata and the further practice of it in kihon - which is a relatively modern/Japanese inovation. If however you look at older kata like Naihanchi, Bassai and Wanshu, you can see punches done in a variety of directions - with different fists etc. Building blocks - maybe? Chitsu

Not wishing to be rude, but there is no such word as katas. It's a bit like saying Sheeps. Chitsu

Hi Jeffrey, btw as a 4th kyu, I wouldn't say you were a newbie to this, so would be surprised you can't see the difference. Shintani Wado kai Pinan Yondan: Wado International Karate-do Federation (WIKF) Pinan Yondan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvri7fwB8CI&NR=1 Have a look and see what you think. Chitsu

Here is a link to the JKA grading syllabus up to 10th dan https://www.jka.or.jp/english/karate/dan_rank.html If you click on the hyper link you can see the individual kata required. Chitsu