mudansha

At our school, the minimum time for a black belt is around 6 years. if a recipient is under 16 years of age, he is given a "Shodan Sho" which is a black belt with a white stripe through the center of the belt. At the age of 16, he is allowed to test for a full black belt.

Well that's a pretty bummer way to say it... I prefer to say that the ultimate truth in Karate is not perfection of technique, but the non-stop effort to achieve it And I disagree with you Jake, you can know a kata and understand it. What he said. There is no such thing as a perfect kata... we will always make mistakes. it does not mean that we lack the knowledge of what is a perfect kata and strive every day to achieve it.

Not really... the closest we have is a myspace: http:/www.myspace.com/wayofjapan my shodan told us that kiba dachi helps us do for example yoko geri keage and yoko geri kekomi easier than when we're in zenkutsu dachi. so it helps that way too. In my experience, it a "proper" kiba dachi, NOTHING is easier. Even standing is a pain in the leg!

Kancho Kanazawa is well revered as possibly the most technical karateka ever. Here is his Heian Nidan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VApwsBSx7mg

Yes... non standard. When was the last time you were taught renoji dachi? It is not normally covered like: fudo dachi: rooted stance kiba dachi: horse stance / side stance kokutsu dachi: back stance neko ashi dachi: cat stance Sanchin dachi: hourglass stance zenkutsu dachi: front stance yoi dachi: basic stance

On the non-standard stances, it is nearly impossible to tell what you are talking about through text. Most of these obscure stances show up in Kata. If you watch some youtube videos on shotokan kata, see if you can find the move in there, and then we can help you. All of the kata books list the names of these obscure stances. Some of them that come to mind are "Hangetsu dachi". It is very similar to sanchin dachi, but wider. The ONLY time you see it is in the Kata Hangetsu. The other is the "Renoji Dachi" or "L stance" found in heian godan just before the jump.

getting fatter

You must know my Sensei... Abe Belardo. He trained under Halliburton Sensei in the 70's. He follws Halliburton doctrine to this day when teaching. "Give 100%, or leave".

I passed!!! I put a link to our belt requirements below. From what I have been told, JKA removed those katas when Funakoshi sensei died. Even SKI does not officially recognize them. Many dojos have brought them back, including JKA and SKI affiliated dojos. One of the people that trains at our dojo came from JKA and never heard of them, Kihon Ippon Kumite, or our Kihon Katas. I've never heard of it. Here are our requirements: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=440127210&albumID=738476&imageID=457153

I practice Shotokan... we are affiliated with SKI No Ido Kihon? Chitsu

Well.. unfortunately, here in California, collapsible batons are classified as felonies to posess. Any stick or hard object carried for personal defense is felony possession of a "billy". It is also a felony to possess a sap, nunchaku, metal knuckles, weighted gloves, throwing stars, shuriken... et cetera. Now... if one has a broom stick at his disposal, or a walking stick... and someone happens to attack him, then it is ok to use it for defense, but to carry something easily identifiable as a self-defense weapon, is against the law in California. Carrying a concealed, loaded firearm, is only a misdemeanor... I think I would rather go that way anyway.

The information is 10 years old but I show his email address to be: dragononli@att.net

I think that is aimed more at the black belt level. It is not up to a white belt to choose specific techniques to "master". Only after the karateka has been exposed to everything, should he decide to start "trimming the fat". Get proficient with several weapons.... and then settle for one that you choose to master. If it be the bo staff because it is the most adaptable... then so be it.

Okay, first of all: 'kama.' That's the accepted Romanization. Second, I'd like to address your examples point-by-point. If training with a sai translates to proficiency with sticks, then why not simply train with sticks? There are a lot of excellent stickfighting arts out there. And the degree to which your sai techniques intelligently exploit the unique features of the sai- its prongs, which enable it to be held in different grips than a stick and to parry other weapons in a unique fashion- is the degree to which they will be unsuitable for use with a typical stick. Much of proper nunchaku use depends on the balanced nature of the weapon, the fact that you can easily wield it from either end. Use a half-brick in a sock the way you will a nunchaku once you've gotten good with it, and you'll be hitting people with the sock end half the time. It doesn't translate well to an improvised flail with only one weighted end. As for the kama- if you're using an edged weapon even remotely like a hammer, something is wrong. The defining strength of an edged weapon- the *reason* you put an edge on one- is that a blade behaves much differently than a blunt weapon, requiring far less impact to cause significant injury. Knives are popular and deadly weapons because you can essentially slap-fight someone to death with a sufficiently sharp one. While the kama may be weighted like a hammer, in use it shouldn't even resemble one, and vice versa. I won't say anything about the tonfa except that your examples seem rather strained for examples of 'typical' items that you're likely to have on or near you in a self-defense situation, unless you're a mechanic or are very good at quickly and precisely breaking chair legs off. And agreed- staff techniques are widely adaptable. The question isn't whether proficiency in any weapon is better than nothing- it's whether attaining proficiency in those particular weapons is better than spending the same amount of time and effort studying weapons that will more closely resemble what you're likely to have on hand or close by in a typical self-defense encounter, such as Tallgeese's aforementioned club, knife, and gun. The list shouldn't 'go on and on'- it should be as short and as widely applicable as possible. We can go back and forth all day long and it wont really change anyone's mind. My argument, however, is the easier to prove. My statement is that proficiency in traditional martial arts weapons will better-prepare you to use objects around you for self defense. Even if it is a minute amount, the statement is correct. Are you stating that being proficient in traditional weaponry will have absolutely no benefit in self defense scenarios? The other aspect is, why not do both?? I have spent thousands on firearms training and am more proficient with a Glock than a nunchaku, sai, bo staff, or any other traditional weapon. In California, carrying a concealed, loaded weapon without a permit is a misdemeanor where carrying nunchaku is a felony. One might argue that if I am proficient with the glock, why even bother with nunchaku? I take a holistic approach to self defense. I think training in any weapon is beneficial.

A staff is one thing, but what common everyday objects resemble a tonfa, sai, or kama sufficiently to make training with them, specifically, useful? Ever trained in weapons??? Techniques learned with a sai could be easily adapted to a stick of the same size. This is true of nunchaku as well.... ever heard of a sap??? Take a sock and put something heavy in it... a rock, a bar of soap, a lock, even change.... Then wield it like nunchaku; it is a very effective weapon. Techniques learned on a cama could very easily be adapted to a standard hammer. It has the same basic shape with a lot more weight. Techniques learned on tonfa could be adapted to any T shaped device... a breaker bar with an extension on it... a ratchet with a deep socket attached, a chair leg.... Techniques learned with a bokken, or oar, could be easily adapted to a bat, or any straight hard object. The list goes on and on. Proficiency in weapons is always better than nothing.

I wouldn't necessarily call TSD just Korean Karate. It has evolved over the years, if you look at it now it bears a much stronger resemblance to other forms over TKD. Whether or not Hwang Kee truly studied TaeKyon is debatable (as it is with all the masters) but he did have other stylistic influence than just shotokan. Some of the other guys on the forum could probably explain TSD history better than me... The ITF would like you to think that but its not strictly true. Gen. Choi was definitely one of the original pioneers and was totally invaluable in developing Taekwondo into what it was today but he didn't start it. I don't think you can credit anyone with "starting it" really. The individual kwans arose by themselves then were forced to unify. That is nothing new... research Shuri-Te, Naha-Te, and Tomari-Te... all were combined into Kara-Te one way or another... Any time an art is taught from one person, to the next, subtle changes are incorporated. A karateka has his own flare and body mechanics which alter ever so slightly, the appearance of a kata and eventually a style. Gichin Funakoshi died 53 years ago. When he died, his school broke apart when they disagreed over competitions. Two separate dojos emerged. All of the students were taught by the same master, but when they broke apart, they evolved into two different styles of Karate: shotokan and Shotokai. For the last 50 years, the same teachings from the same master were taught but the two styles took very different evolutionary tracts. Today, the names and moves of the kata are the same, but they are performed in much different ways. Here is Shotokai: The moves are fluid and run together. Here is Shotokan: The moves are more direct and distinct. As you can see... once a style breaks away... they begin to vary greatly.

Hence... Tang Soo Do. The Japanese characters which spell Karate mean "The way of the empty hand" but that was not always so. That was changed by Gichin Funakoshi. Originally, the characters meant "The way of the Chinese hand" in reference to the chinese origins. Due to the dislike of the Chinese by the Japanese, gichin funakoshi chose to change the name by changing the characters used. It is a homonym... much like saying: "Game Man" and "Gay Man". Both sound the same but mean two different things. Though it was always pronounced "Karate", Funakoshi changed it to "empty" instead of "Chinese". Tang Soo Do literally means "The way of the Chinese hand" in Korean. Tang Soo Do is a Korean martial art that did NOT incorporate Tekkeon into its doctrine and basically just took Shotokan, and converted the language into Korean; it really is Korean Karate. As stated in my OP... General Choi started Tae Kwon Do, and he was a Nidan under Funakoshi (Who only called his art Karate, "shotokan" came after his death). TKD has the Heian (also called Pinan) forms. When Gichin changed what "karate" meant, he also changed the name of the katas. That is why the Pinan katas are called "Heian" in shotokan, and the naihanchi katas are "tekki", et cetera. The martial arts world is packed full of incestuous marriages of styles and techniques so badly that today, any one style has the same moves. There is no such thing as a bad style... only bad instruction.

Do you think that proficiency with a weapon ends when you place that particular weapon down?? You think someone proficient in bo staff cannot defend himself with a broom stick, a walking stick, a PVC pipe, a chair leg, et cetera? What about tonfa, sai, or cama??? Don't you think that someone who is proficient in any of these weapons cannot pick up an object and wield it in a similar fashion?? That is the beauty of traditional Okinawan weapons. At the time they were adopted, they were not weapons, they were common tools. Had they invented screwdrivers in feudal japan, I have no doubt people would be studying screwdriver katas. Proficiency in Okinawan weaponry will give you the ability to pick up things around you and use them as weapons to defend yourself.

I am testing for SanKyu (Brown Belt) on Saturday.... I will have to know: Taekyoku 1-5 Heian 1-5 Tekki Shodan Kihon Ippon Jodan 1-5 (both sides) Kihon Ippon Chudan 1-5 (both sides) Kihon Ippon Gedan 1-5 (both sides) Kihon Ippon Round Kick 1-2 (both sides) Kihon Ippon Side Thrust 1-2 (both sides) SanBon Kumite 1-3 (both sides) And then the beloved Kumite..... Wish me luck! Just think: 1.5 years and I may have to change my name from Mudansha, to Yudansha!

We have minimum times. For 10-7 kyu, it's 4 months; for 6-1st kyu its 6 months.... This puts the minimum time for black belt at around 5 years; it ranges from 5-7 years for shodan... Then the minimums for above that are: 1 year as a shodan for nidan (but more like 3 years) 2 years as a nidan for Sandan (but more like 4 years) 3 years as a sandan for Yondan (but more like 5-6 years) This puts the minimum time for a SanDan at 10 years or so... there are some that have been training for 10 years and are only Nidan... there have only been 3 or so Sandans, ever.

Ever heard the phrase "Never bring a knife to a gun fight"??? That is true in all things... "Never bring a stick to a knife fight." "Never bring fists to a stick fight".... It takes a lot to overcome a weapon greater than your own. Better to be familiar with a weapon and never need it.

The only people that were not "mixed" were the Chinese. I did some research on the origins of Shotokan, and the Origins of Tae Kwon Do. Tae Kwon Do is a mixture of Shotokan, and Tekkyon (a forgotten kicking art from Korea). Here is the history of Shotokan: Origins of Shotokan Karate Category: Sports Origins of Shotokan Karate Chatan Yara (1668 - 1756) was originally from Okinawa. He was sent to China at age 12 to learn the language and the culture. There he met Chinese master Wong Chung-Yoh learning Xingyiquan, an ancient martial art. He studied under him for several years learning self defense, the Bo Staff and dual sais. He also studied the art of Ch'uan Fa (Kempo in Japanese) under master Kusanku for several years. After twenty years of training, he moved back to Okinawa near the village of Shuri in 1700. Once there, he came to the aid of a woman who was being harassed by a samurai. He was unarmed, yet was able to avoid the samurai who was armed with a katana sword. Yari defended himself with an oar he grabbed from a nearby boat and was able to kill the samurai. He was then asked by local authorities to teach his martial art to locals for self defense; he called this art “Te” or “hand” in japanese. Wanshu was a leader of a Chinese delegation that came to Tomari Okinawa in 1683. He was a Shoalin Monk trained in the art of Fujian White Crane, a form of chinese boxing, and Chu'an Fa. He taught these disciplines to the residents of Tomari and developed a kata that still bears his name. Many styles of Okinawan karate contain the Wanshu kata. For practitioners of Shotokan, when Gichin Funakoshi incorporated the kata into his style, he changed the name to Empi. Higa Pechin (1790–1870) Originally, Higa was taught Chu'an Fa from Zhang Xue Li, a Chinese master. Later when Wnshu came to Okinawa in 1683, he learned Wanshu's predetermined sequence of moves and dubbed it “forms” or Kata. He was instrumental in the development of Kata to martial arts. He took the inspiration from Wanshu and devised weapons katas for the tonfa, sai, and the bo staff. He was really the first martial artist in Okinawa to develop katas. Peichin Takahara (1683-1760-66) Takahara learned “Te” from Chatan Yara, and weapons training from Higa Pechin. In addition to the weapons training, he was also taught Higa's katas. He was a great warrior in the old feudal system that existed in the RyuKyu islands which now include Okinawa. Kusanku (1700-1762) aka Kwang Shang Fu. Kusanku was a Chu'an Fa (Kempo) practitioner from China. In 1756 he was a chinese ambassador to Okinawa and lived near the village of Naha. During his time in Okinawa, he also trained with Chatan Yara. Kanga Sakukawa (1733 – 1815) Sakukawa was from the village of Shuri and was a practitioner of Te under the direction of Peichin Takahara. He was instrumental in the further development of the art of Te and is often regarded as the “father of Okinawan Karate”. He trained under Takahara for six years until he met with Kusanku and trained under him for six years. In 1762, his sensei Kusanku died so he developed a kata in his honor and called it Kusanku. This kata is in many styles of Karate. When Gichin Funakoshi included this kata, he changed the name to Kanku Dai. Thanks to the pioneers of Te, it began to spread throughout Okinawa and each new master added their own inflections to the art. As time progressed, certain styles began to immerge depending on the village it was practiced. The three villages were Shuri, Tomari, and Naha. The result was three styles of Te, Shuri-te, Tomari-Te and Naha-te. Sokon Matsumura (1800-1890) Sokon was from Shuri and trained under Kanga Sakukawa in the art of Shuri-Te. He became quite proficient in the art and eventually received a title of nobility from King Sho Ko and was the chief instructor and body guard for the king and his successors. Later he traveled to China and further studied Chu'an Fa (Kempo). He later returned to Okinawa and brought his knowledge back. Some of the items he brought back were katas borrowed from his Chu'an Fa teachings. Naihanchi (Later changed to Tekki), Passai (Later changed to Bassai Dai/Sho), Seisan (later changed to Hangetsu), Chinto (Later changed to Gankaku), and Gojushiho (shotokan splits this into two versions, sho and dai). He also Invented the Kata Kusanku. In shotokan, Kusanku is the parent kata of Kanku Sho and Kanku Dai. Sokon Matsumura also founded what is still today a form of traditional martial arts- Shorin-ryu. He did this by combining the arts of Shuri-te and Tomari-te. Anko Itosu (1831-1915) and Anko Asato (1827–1906) were both students of Sokon Matsumura. They both trained Gichin Funakoshi in the arts of Shuri-te and Shorin-Ryu. Gichin Funakoshi (1868-1957) Gichin Funakoshi studied Shorin ryu under Anko Asato for years. He also studied Shorei-Ryu and studied weapons under Anko Itosu. He was very adept with Okinawan swords and the art of Kendo (japanese sword fighting). He used this in his personal practice of martial arts and developed the timing and distancing based on that kendo training. Gichin was a poet and often went by the pen name “Shoto” which means “Pine Waves” . In Okinawa, the many different styles of Te were referred to “chinese hand” because of its Chinese origins. When Gichin moved to Japan in 1936, there were many bad feelings towards china. As a result he changed the name of his teachings from “Chinese Hand” to “Empty Hand”. Both Chinese and Empty are pronounced “kara” though in japanese they are written differently. In essence, Funakoshi changed the meaning of Kara-te from chinese hand to empty hand without changing the sound of the word. He also changed all of the old names of the kata to further distance himself from the chinese arts. After moving to Tokyo, Japan he opened his first dojo which he called “Shotokan”. Kan means “place” so it basically means “Shoto's Place”. He went to local colleges and universities demonstrating his art and encouraging them to adopt karate classes. Gichin never referred to his art as anything but Karate; shotokan was simply the name of his school. His campaigning in Japan paid off and karate took off in Japan and Funakoshi was the first one to bring the art to the mainland. In 1955 he founded the Japan Karate Association (JKA) which is still in business today. In addition to the JKA, Funakoshi also formed the Shotokai; an organization of his karate students. During his life, he strictly denounced the idea of sport karate. In his view, karate was a “one strike kill” art and anything short of that would be diluting the art. For this reason sport karate was never done in his honor. After his death in 1957, the JKA decided to hold a sport karate tournament. The hard-line proponents of Funakoshi's students protested and from that point on, the two organizations went separate ways. The Shotokai still to this day refuse to compete in competitions and for this reason they are rarely heard from though they still exist. They share the same kata as shotokan, but perform it with a different style. The Shotokan dojo was destroyed in 1945 but after his death in 1957, the JKA adopted the name “Shotokan” and hence, the style's official name was born.

Who is Gata?

Rateh wrote: In my school, I teach a beginning class myself, and there I am called sensei, even though I am a brown belt. When I am assisting one of the black belt instructors in one of their classes I am called sempai. I think this makes sense. This is what I meant. "Sensei" is whoever is teaching the class, whether he be a ikkyu, or a sandan. "Sempai" is the next rank down (the senior student) whether he be rokyu, or a lesser sandan.

Then look up the term "Sempai". There is only 1 sensei. Having only one sensei may be the way it works at your school. But for us we did not use the title of sempai, any instructor was a sensei regardless of rank, and class assistants did not hold any title. What i am referring to is that Sensei means "teacher". Whoever teaching the class is "Sensei" and the senior student, or assistant is the sempai.