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I see your points. and i can see how you integerate you matrial arts into your belifes.

I just hope how you can understand how why i was questioning it.

you are absoluty correct.

my statement came after years of being trained with that dogma.

My point was that even if you break a bone i.e. cheek bone that can be considered deadly force.

So any technique that you use has the posibility of being classified as deadly force.

Consciously no subconsciously i am. When i was on my motorcycle i lowsided I dont rember the crsh but i evidently baild off the bike before it went totally down. I was walking and i looked down to see my bike spinning on the ground.

if my subcounscious was not afraid to die i would not be telling you this story.

i have to much to be as a father and husband to wish for death but i dont think i consciously fear it.

Ummm the way i was taught...

Deadly force, that force which a person know or whish he should know has a risk of causing death or serious bodily harm. It use is justified on in the following manner:

self defence

defence of others.

property involving national security

property not involving national security but inherently dangerous to others.

Upon lawful order

dang i cant remember the other 2

Serious bodily harm is breaking of bone mainming or disfiguring

So even your non lethal strikes are using deadly force.

The Zen Way to the Martial artist. Taisen Deshimaru

other than that i listen to my shihan and sensei. i do not want tocloud with what they are teaching by what other say is proper or better.

get below 200 lbs (90 kg) and do a triatholon

I have to disagree here, at least with the "death to yourself" part. As Paul mentions in one of his many letters, as Christians we have cast off the "old man." This "old man" is our worldly self. We are, in a sense, already dead to this world and if we physically expire here we haven't lost anything. We are just moving into a new chapter of our existence. Furthermore, in verse 5 of the 23rd Psalm David says that the Lord "prepares a table before me in the presence of my enemies."I see a disregard for death or whatever else "my enemies" can bring upon me. Essentially, we are told not to worry about what will happen. How does this translate into MA/self defense? To me, it allows me to minimize thoughts of what might happen to my person should the need arise to defend myself or others, therefore keeping my mind as free of fetters as possible in the crucial moments of a self defense situation.

Ahh thank you karate ed that makes a bit of sence that. and in this light i have to yield my point.

but as i was rereading this i thought: There are two deaths ( in zen there are many more than 2 even if one walks away from the feild) Paul only addresses 1 (in this case his)

Was he willing to bring death to the Romans? And if not this doesnt address the morailty of the christian faith to use stike that may cause death.

Or is death that happened witout intention not covered by morality and instead an act of god or chance? i.e. you sweep the oppennt and in his fall he falls on his knife.

I have had to limit my drinking to maybe 1or 2 drinks a week. and it is useually only 1 or 2 drinks a month.our fight nights are pretty intence. " drink up fat boy you got a fight on thrusday night."

For one I am not a sensei i am a student. that is exactly my point. if you don't teach or practice those very distructive strikes you will not be able to make the decision to use them. that decision was made in the dojo long before a conflict appeared.

In this case i see no conflict withing christanity and the Martial artist. the Martial artists mind body and spirit are one and will act accordingly. and if this is the case for Kata and forms and even tournement psort in this view martial art is totally compatible with christanity.

For self defence, comabat and the acceptance of death to yourself your opponent or bioth then in this light i see christanity as incompatible. as the spirit mand and body well be in conflict.

I" So I follow that, and even further, don't even practice techniques that could cause permanent damage to an opponent.

I could go on all day with this stuff too

This is the problem i have with the smaller girl vs bigger bad guy(s)

For kata and forms I agree no sence in practicing deadly harmful things but for self defence no she must be able to do much damage in a short amount of time.

I have a 19 yo BB in my calls she is 4'8 and only 80 lbs if she where attacks following the logic here she would not be able to parctice a deadly forse strike as she would not have been able to practice it.

OK i am a n00b on this forum and only a purple belt but what I have read on this thread leads me to belive this is dangerous. Granted I am not a christian however. i know at least my sensai is.

Self Defence:

If you do not teach strikes that can cause death or serious bodily harm this leaves your students in grave danger. Your 5'2 115 lbs female student will not be able to into a long duration fight with a male 200 lbs attacker. unless she uses strikes that are designed to immediatly stop the attacker. these strikes are going to cause serious bodily harm or death. Or are you expecting a lock and then what she is stuck trying to keep this guy on the ground and hopefully he is alone?

State of mind and body:

If your mind is clouded by a WWJD view on the world every decision you make will have to be thought out and then decided to go that route baised on a Christian morality. I see this as creating a wall between the body mind and spirit (very anti Zen) and all three will arguing over the correct coarse of action.

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Torn rotocuff in my shoulder last year still not healed correctly from traing to close to having it injured the week before.

My first post to this forum. My dojo sparring for the adult classes is light contact freestyle.

Sometimes we get in injured I have and soo have me fellow students and Sensei's However from reading the post here I am luckey as no one in our dojo would intentionally hurt someone.