sensei8

It's interesting that you are going to fewer belts, makes sense to me. It seems like ranks tend to trend the other way (rank drift?) either by adding on to the top end (25th degree black belts) or on the bottom end (0.125 white belt stripe). Taking the time to re-calibrate makes sense every now and again. Solid post!!

Solid post!! Unique how your JBB is done; I like it!! Our JBB is the bane of my existence. I was a JBB for LONG 5 years, 13 years old to 18 years old; no other ranking structure within JBB...no advancements of any type, whatsoever!! However, Dai-Soke continued to teach us as though we had earned our Shodan. By the time I reached 18, I was more than ready; I earned my Shodan in 1975...Nidan in 1976...Sandan in 1977. After that, all Dan ranks had to meet tenure before I could apply for any Dan Testing Cycle Candidacy.

Warning: Long post in order to address much in one post; sorry!! Great questions as well as responses; fair enough, and I respect you all wholeheartedly!! I'll address each and every question/comment, if necessary, directed to me in this one post. You will not agree with everything I post because our ways may be contrary to your ways; that's completely understandable across the board. Our By-Laws have to reflect this change; that was up to our Legal Department with the assistance from four different departments; you know, cross the 't's' and dot the 'i's'!! That was finalized two weeks before the official announcements were made network wide. Please, before I address each question, I just want to clarify this one simple thing or two. The Reorganizing of our Rank Structure will be a testament for them as to their MA maturity...Are they here for Rank or not?!?!?!? If they're here for Rank, then I bid them a friendly farewell. If they're here for knowledge and experience, then I bid them to train hard, and train well!! To the questions/comments... Nidan Melbourne wrote: We stressed over this concern the most because, rank is forever, and can't be taken away. So, for example, we didn't take the rank away, can't do that; we simply took the colored belt away. Those ranks that "got the chop" will join the most appropriate rank, whether it be Beginner, Intermediate, or Advanced. For example, Yellow and Orange are Beginners, and they will be merged into White, with one exception; White with one stripe will represent Yellow, and White with two stripes will represent Orange. So, on and so forth. Green already, and has always, had two stripes because Green, Shichikyu (7th Kyu) and Rokukyu (6th Kyu) are where our Intermediate levels begin, and Brown has three stripes, Sankyu to Ikkyu. Our Kyu's are Jukyu-Ikkyu (10th-1st). These reorganizing Rank Structures are immediate!! There will be no phasing out whatsoever through a Testing Cycle. All ranks are to absorbed by the new Rank Structure immediately and with no exceptions, by any and all dojo's within the SKKA network. Conformations are commencing immediately through a duly appointed representative of the Hombu via dojo visits. All dojo's within the SKKA network have been instructed to complete their Rank Structure Reorganization by March 23, 2018. If any dojo within the SKKA network fails to comply, their Shindokan Seal of Affiliation will be removed, and made void until further notice. If I understand your last question, the stock of remaining belts, which will have no value to us anymore, will be sold to interested parties. However, we'll get with our supplier to request a return; sell back the belts we no longer use for the belts we will continue to use, kind of like a trade-in....1 for 1, so to speak. Wastelander wrote: We don't view any belt discrepancies with our on-going Rank Structure Reorganization because the existing ranks will simply absorb the appropriate rank structure, depending on their current rank; a student is either a Beginner, Intermediate, or Advanced. There will be NO RE-TEST, whatsoever; we see no value in that!! mushybees wrote: A Purple would merge into Green, which will now have four stripes, and NOT two stripes. Both Blue and Purple will be merged into Green. JR 137 wrote: The "defunct" belts will be completely removed network wide by March 23, 2018; no exceptions will be tolerated!! Curriculum changes are a simple matter of changing the title of the document. Instead of it reading, for example...ORANGE BELT 9TH KYU CURRICULUM...it'll read...9TH KYU CURRICULUM. Yes, that means, within the White belt Rank, there will now be three Kata's, and not just one. Future Testing Cycles have NOT been, and won't be, affected by this change. Within the official announcements, as well as the detailed Testing Cycle Amendments, that were sent network wide via certified mail, concerning the Candidate Testing Cycle Request, these confusions were laid to rest. Students within White, per the up and coming Testing Cycle for their Green, will have to execute three Kata's, and not the one Kata for Orange. Testing Cycles are once every three months...Q1 = end of March...Q2 = end of June...Q4 = end of Septmember...Q4 = end of December!! That's why, March 23, 2018 is imperative that the Reorganization of Rank Structure be completed by then; it's one week before Q1 commences. IF, the Reorganization of Rank Structure isn't completed network wide, there will be NO Q1 Testing Cycle. For those candidates that have already been approved to attend said Q1 Testing Cycle will have to resubmit for Q2 Testing Cycle in a timely manner per that particular deadline. MatsuShinshii wrote: Nice familiar break down, for the most. Yes, we do view beginner, intermediate, and advanced differently, but just how boring it would be if we were ALL the same. Or maybe boring is necessary for commonality...maybe. We would stress out concerns with Soke and Dai-Soke, and he/they would take our advice/concerns/questions in consideration about Rank Structure, and then he/they would make a final decision. Sometimes, he/they would tell us in no uncertain terms where to take our advice/concerns/questions...in short, we can pound sand, for all they gave a darn, AND POUND THAT SAND NOW!! They both were so sensitive at times!! LLLEARNER wrote: From having known Soke and Dai-Soke as well as I did, I can assuredly state with confidence that revenue generation wasn't the reason for leaping, and I do mean leaping, from a four Rank Structure to an 8 Rank Structure, but for the reasons I stated in my OP. Now, the striping we did in the past, Green with two, and Brown with four, were to announce the Intermediate and Advanced Kyu level within the Kyu structure. Not for revenue generation, neither is the more usages nowadays of the new striping. So, White will have to have the CI or the approved representative add three stripes, which had none in the past. Green will now have to have the CI or the approved representative add four stripes, which had two in the past. Brown, well, no change there, so the CI or the approved representative won't have to do anything extra or new in that regards. Poor hard working CI or approved representatives; bad Hombu...bad meany Hombu!! strangepair03 wrote: I was always keenly interested in the four Rank Structure for as long as I can even remember; maybe a little jealous of those who trained in that structure. Well, now, I get to train it and in it first hand; I'm excited...like a kid with a new toy. singularity6 wrote: Funny you say this, singularity6, because, when Greg, our past Kancho, and I first talked about this one weekend, and before we introduced the idea to Reorganize the Rank Structure to the other Hierarchy members, some time in the past, we two greatly liked this concept. Unfortunately, that idea was quickly tabled because of some narrow minded opinions; couldn't get the votes at all. Spartacus Maximus Solid post!! That's why SKKA manages the way it does; consistency!! Having this and that and ten other ways of doing this and that and who knows what else is beyond confusion. Shindokan dojo's within the SKKA network can do it anyway they want to, and they can teach Shindokan any way they want to, but if they go Rogue, then they can do it one their own; they've that right. But a ship without a solid port is a ship with no direction, and will flounder forever without a secured anchor. bushido_man96 wrote: Which board?? Past board or current board?? With the past board, it all started over a weekend when I was over at Greg's house, with his family and mine, enjoying some chit chat and BBQ and all. Then the following Monday, him and I introduced our ideas about eliminating the eight Rank Structure back to the original four Rank Structure, to honor Soke and Dai-Soke, to the other Hierarchy. Our conversation that weekend began over us looking at some of Greg's picture albums, and he had a picture of a large group of students standing in front of the Hombu, circa, 1982, and on the very next page, he had a picture of an old Hombu class, circa, 1959, and written on the very bottom of that page, was, Students Train Hard. It was noted about that page on those particular pictures, 1982, the students rank, and those ranks listed were part of the eight Rank Structure. and on the 1959, those ranks listed were part of the then four Rank Structure. Both Greg and I wondered out loudly to each other what it must've been like to have trained under that four Rank Structure; it's possible pro and cons. Greg, being Greg, suggested to me that we go back to that four Rank Structure, to honor Soke and Dai-Soke. That started the desire within us two, even though the rest of the Hierarchy weren't so thrilled; it was tabled. It was forgotten, however, when while returning from a trip to Mexico, tragedy struck when our SKKA's Kancho, Greg Forsythe, as well as SKKA Regents, Thomas Stillwater, Jonathan Plouge, Ben Stevenson, Giichi Tanaka, and Yoshikazu Tanaka were all killed in a head-on vehicle accident in the very early morning of July 11th, 2016. Not long ago, maybe, last late October, one of our current members of our Hierarchy came across all of those meetings in a box that was being stored in one of the unoccupied offices on the 2nd floor, marked...MEETING STUFF. Curiosity killed the cat. That rekindled the conversations once again whenever that box was brought to my attention, and I explained to them all about it. The rest is history!!

Yes, and then some!! Kind of like when Kenneth and Kendall are wrestling each other at home, just being boys...that's Tegumi in a nutshell. Thankfully, we keep that to a minimum at home! But, not at a wrestling competition; release the beast!!

Solid post!!!!!! Black belt should be darn near impossible to earn; the rarest of rare.

They're still loving it all, right? Or has it run its full course?? Are their thoughts elsewhere?? Is their divisions tougher than expected?? Nonetheless, their tough losses, for sure. Hopefully they can keep the minds in the game. We got their backs!!

For the old structure was the time in rank for kids and adults different pre black belt? Kyu ranks, for all ages, do not have rank tenure whatsoever; only Dan ranks. The JBB has no rank tenure, just a restriction based on age. It's been that way since Shindokan was founded by Soke.

The MAist...the practitioner is responsible of every technique that's executed to assure, to the very best of ones ability, that said technique is effective. When said technique isn't, it's that practitioners fault. A technique isn't a technique unless its effective, in which, it's an educated guess, at best. Our job is to be able, and with ease, to study said opponent, in fractions of a second, and continuously, of an appending attack before its fruition. Nonetheless, most give away their intent quite easily because they don't know any better, which is to our advantage. If you know what to look for!! Tale tell things, like stances and body language, for example, are easy to pick up, and act accordingly with cause. However, methodologies and ideologies differ from style to style and practitioner to practitioner, and those delicate things are ushered onto the back burner. As Ed Parker said..."He use hesitates, meditates horizontally". He might just be right on that one!! Imho!!

Most of my students that needed any financial help didn't come to me at all. No, not at all!! I came to them!! I'll notice that said student hasn't been on the floor as of late, especially when in the past, that said student was adamant about being to every class without fail; they wanted to be at the dojo. Please let me say that again...THEY WANTED TO BE AT THE DOJO!! That raises my eyebrow. I'll go visit them at their home!! I'll go through the normal salutations and all, then I'll ask them point blank if the reason that they're no longer attending class is due to some financial stress. Some let pride answer, and some pointedly say so!! If I feel their desire is still there and they want to be at the dojo, I'll offer free tuition, and that'll continue until it no longer is warranted. Those students, which is far and few, will come into my office and ask me straight out. That's the tough one because I don't know their heart. So, I'll offer a month free to learn about their heart. After that free month, I'll let them know my decision, a lot of that will be based on them. Either way, they are not to discuss it with any student, parent, and/or whomever, and if they do, their financial assistance is ended immediately.

I just want to take this personal moment to bow to each one of you here because the words spoken on this thread are personal to each one of you, and the willingness of sharing it is admirable trait. Thank you, all!!

You said it...NOT A DAY WITHOUT KATA...these are the words of a dedicated MAist; honed to the continuing of ones MA betterment. I bow to you and your unselfish dedication to the process of being that MAist!! Wherever one trains at, THAT...right there, THAT is the dojo, and you've not missed a day!! Train hard, and train well!!

This is just me, so forgive me if I should speak with any unclear thoughts, but, I never ever once understood the overall importance of the gi, any gi, it escapes me totally. I vaguely understand that the gi, or whatever else it might be in the MA styles of the world, is a uniform of our trade. I get that. What I don't get is the strictness of which the gi/uniform is affably honed as a formality, and heads will roll if the gi/uniform protocol isn't adhered to. Isn't the wearing of a gi/uniform secondary, if not thirdly, if not at the end of the most concerned lists to teaching the MA effectively?? After all, one can train and teach and learn the MA in just about anything that's comfortable and not binding; sweats and a t-shirt come to my mind. But hey, it's their [CI/Governing Body] house, and we're guests, and IF we want to be in their house, then we had better follow their rules, or we'll face most assuredly summary judgement. I get that, too.

For us, it's a rank structure, no big deal, really. After months of meetings, we've, the SKKA have decided to trim the fat away from our ranking structure. Why? A rainbow looks only good in the sky, and not on our students. This is us, and we hold no judgement to those who do have a lot of different belts. Our Rank Structure use to be: White [beginner] Yellow [beginner] Orange [beginner] Green [intermediate] Blue [intermediate] Purple [intermediate] Brown [Advanced] Black/Junior Black [Advanced] 8 different ranks...8 different colors!! Soke, once he and Dai-Soke, moved to the USA, they cooperatively decided through some painstaking research and good old trial and errors, they went to the 8 ranking structure, from their original 4 ranking structure because they both believed that students in the USA needed recognition of their achievements, no matter how minute or unnecessary it might appear. They both really hated the 8 ranking structure because it went against what they had done in the past, but they felt that change was good, no matter how much it went against their all the believed. In time, they warmed up to it, and they never looked back. They never showed outwardly that this deeply troubled to anyone; they wore a brave face. So, we, the SKKA, are going back to what they originally wanted... White [beginner] Green [intermediate] Brown [Advanced] Black/Junior Black [Advanced] It is said, the best way between two points is a straight line. Well, I believe that we've straightened out our line. Announcements to the Student Body across the SKKA network is being made while I type this post.

Happy Birthday to you...Happy Birthday to you...SING IT WITH ME...Happy Birthday dear Alex, Happy Birthday to you.....and many more!! Happy Birthday, Alex!!

Just because ones a human being, it doesn't mean one knows how to act like a human being!! If a student of mine is facing financial difficulties, then I'll do all that I can to help them, including providing them free lessons, for as long as they warrant it. I don't do it to get a pat on my back. I do it because it's the right thing to do.

At one time, it [black belt] meant everything to me; it was the exclamation of my MA journey!! It demonstrated that all of my hard work; the blood, sweat, and tears was worth it all...AT ONE TIME. When I was a child, I did childish things, and when I became a man, I cast away all childish things!! I stopped searching for rank when I earned my Sandan; the meaning of rank dissipated at that moment. Sure, I was proud of my accomplishment, except one!! My Dan rankings were important to me because I earned them under Dai-Soke, and for me, to not be proud of having earned any rank, not just black belt, meant a sign of disrespect to my Dai-Soke. I'm not proud of my Kudan because I didn't earn it, really, imho, and moreover, I didn't earn it under Dai-Soke!! What surrounds my Kudan Testing Cycle, and all that proceeded that day, makes me believe that I would've passed no matter what. Again, I'm proud of every rank, and while I'm a Senior Dan, I'm mostly proud of my Shogo titles!! I can't earn a Shogo title because they're bestowed!! Each and everyone of them were bestowed upon me by Soke and Dai-Soke, and Shogo titles are not tested for. An exclamation point of my MA maturity, which far exceeds any Dan rank I earned. My Hanshi means more to me than my double Hachidan, and even more so than my Kudan!!

It USE to be white, and nothing else per Soke!! Years tender ones heart, and he allowed black for Dan rank holders!! Then, shortly thereafter, Godan and above could wear a combination of white and black, but, the top had to be white!! Then, years later, he was convinced by the then Board of Regents to allow students to train, NOT TEST, in whatever color they desired!! All Testing Candidates still MUST wear only white; no exceptions. Shoot, I was one of the very first to show up at the Hombu in a completely blue gi...Soke and Dai-Soke just smiled, shrugged their shoulders, and shook their heads back and forth in dismay. Hehehehehehehehehehehe!! Kind of like the one I'm wearing here... https://www.karateforums.com/shindokan-and-tkd-get-together-vt41438.html?highlight=tkd+shindokan+meet Scroll down towards the bottom of that page.

Yes, and then some!! Kind of like when Kenneth and Kendall are wrestling each other at home, just being boys...that's Tegumi in a nutshell.

I could not agree with you anymore Sensei8 but unfortunately this is the way of the world. When you figure out how to change the mindset of 99% of the schools out there let me know. Until then I think you and all of us are stuck with it. However that does not mean you must fall into this trap nor practice it within your own Dojo. Solid post!! Changing the mindset of 99% is a far fetched desire of mine, true enough. Not impossible; yet, not practical. Therefore, change starts with one dojo, and then with another dojo, and then again with another; there must be a start, a model to follow. However, many practitioners love the pageantry that comes with any MA celebration; their 5 minutes of fame. They love that a fuss is made over them, and once that apple has been bitten, the fall occurs like an explosion. So, there's the start. Someone...some dojo has to start the change. If it's meant to be, then it's meant to be. That's why my dojo and our Hombu have taken the necessary steps to end the pageantry immediately, and not in a weening manner, but cold turkey. One, the training becomes the focus. Two, unnecessary expenses are curbed, and those expenses once used for the pageantry, are now being used for the betterment of the students; more and better training equipment, and so on and so forth. Those of us within the Shindokan circle who've been around for quite some time were mildly shocked. Why? It was new, and not expected. Depending on the event, there was more of a shock. For example, our Annual Testing Cycle at the Hombu, ONCE held a huge celebration to honor all, and not just those who had earned a new promotion. I mean, imagine the most spectacle thing you can dream of, well, that, and then some more, was what our Award Dinner was like...in the neighborhood of $9K; no stone was not turned!! A pageantry...an unnecessary expenditure on any P&L...and that was for just that event. The Hombu HAD a department that dealt strictly with pageantry stuff; annual expenditures in the neighborhood of $110K...GIVE ME A BREAK!! But that was what Soke wanted, and by God, that's what he got; the apple didn't have to fall far to Dai-Soke, who just followed suit. Not all Shindokan dojo within the SKKA network followed suit. That's fine! The Hombu doesn't interfere with internal dojo politics, and what they do is up to them. But I run the Kyuodan Dojo and the Shindokan Hombu!! I did what I felt was needed, and I did it without permission; one of my small perks of being Kaicho. I informed everyone that this is how it is, and if they didn't like it, they're free to go elsewhere. But here at the Hombu, we train!! Student gets promoted, cool!! He/she will get their new promotion at the next class without the pageantry...and before class...behind close doors in my office or in the CI's office at the Hombu with one witness. Those who receive promotions from the Annual Testing Cycle at the Hombu, and because of the amount of testing candidates, those promotions will be mailed to the respective dojo's that they attend. How those dojo's hand out promotions is up to them. Has anyone voiced a complaint to the Hombu or at my dojo?? Nope, not outwardly, just raised eyebrows. I can only control that which is mine to do so!! One dojo at a time!! I’m trying to wrap my head around this... Your honbu had a $9k ceremony every time black belts were promoted? Like a sit down dinner/buffet, DJ, etc. stuff like that? When I was promoted to shodan, my sensei tied my new belt around my waist, shook my hand, said congratulations, had a nice sentence or two to say about me, and I took my place back in line. My current dojo does the same at kyu testing. As far as I know, dan promotion is handled pretty much the same way, only the test is at honbu under Kaicho Nakamura. I guess I missed out on my party when I earned my shodan back in the day. Maybe I’ll convince my current CI to have one for me when I earn it again To the bold type above... Yes!! In the neighborhood of 9K; things aren't cheap, and not at a small scale, but at a large scale. Rental of a huge banquet hall at a 5 star Hotel are quite pricey. Soke and Dai-Soke spared no expenses!! This Annual Dinner is for ALL RANKS, passed and failed; a celebration of THEM!! Soke, many moons ago, held our Award Dinner at the Beverly Hills Hotel; that was extremely expensive because a room is about $1100 per night, and a bungalow is abut $1600 per night...yeah...Soke aged on that one by just looking at the bill. Over the top? Well, that might be true, depending on whom one asks. Has anyone ever seen videos from the ATA, as far as how they recognize their promotions?? Beauty and practicality is in the eye of the beholder!!

Congrats; well deserved!!

I try to imagine Shindokan without Tegumi, but, I just can't. Our core surrounds close range techniques from Tuite to Tegumi, and everything else in between. From a students first day, they are immersed into the world of close range techniques, and oftentimes, the new student realizes that they've bitten off more than they wanted. That realization comes from the plethora of drills, and within those drills, comes the resistance training. Put that all on the new students shoulders, they walk out wide eyed...but they come back wondering what will they learn today...tomorrow!!

Absolutely!! LOL!!

I could not agree with you anymore Sensei8 but unfortunately this is the way of the world. When you figure out how to change the mindset of 99% of the schools out there let me know. Until then I think you and all of us are stuck with it. However that does not mean you must fall into this trap nor practice it within your own Dojo. Solid post!! Changing the mindset of 99% is a far fetched desire of mine, true enough. Not impossible; yet, not practical. Therefore, change starts with one dojo, and then with another dojo, and then again with another; there must be a start, a model to follow. However, many practitioners love the pageantry that comes with any MA celebration; their 5 minutes of fame. They love that a fuss is made over them, and once that apple has been bitten, the fall occurs like an explosion. So, there's the start. Someone...some dojo has to start the change. If it's meant to be, then it's meant to be. That's why my dojo and our Hombu have taken the necessary steps to end the pageantry immediately, and not in a weening manner, but cold turkey. One, the training becomes the focus. Two, unnecessary expenses are curbed, and those expenses once used for the pageantry, are now being used for the betterment of the students; more and better training equipment, and so on and so forth. Those of us within the Shindokan circle who've been around for quite some time were mildly shocked. Why? It was new, and not expected. Depending on the event, there was more of a shock. For example, our Annual Testing Cycle at the Hombu, ONCE held a huge celebration to honor all, and not just those who had earned a new promotion. I mean, imagine the most spectacle thing you can dream of, well, that, and then some more, was what our Award Dinner was like...in the neighborhood of $9K; no stone was not turned!! A pageantry...an unnecessary expenditure on any P&L...and that was for just that event. The Hombu HAD a department that dealt strictly with pageantry stuff; annual expenditures in the neighborhood of $110K...GIVE ME A BREAK!! But that was what Soke wanted, and by God, that's what he got; the apple didn't have to fall far to Dai-Soke, who just followed suit. Not all Shindokan dojo within the SKKA network followed suit. That's fine! The Hombu doesn't interfere with internal dojo politics, and what they do is up to them. But I run the Kyuodan Dojo and the Shindokan Hombu!! I did what I felt was needed, and I did it without permission; one of my small perks of being Kaicho. I informed everyone that this is how it is, and if they didn't like it, they're free to go elsewhere. But here at the Hombu, we train!! Student gets promoted, cool!! He/she will get their new promotion at the next class without the pageantry...and before class...behind close doors in my office or in the CI's office at the Hombu with one witness. Those who receive promotions from the Annual Testing Cycle at the Hombu, and because of the amount of testing candidates, those promotions will be mailed to the respective dojo's that they attend. How those dojo's hand out promotions is up to them. Has anyone voiced a complaint to the Hombu or at my dojo?? Nope, not outwardly, just raised eyebrows. I can only control that which is mine to do so!! One dojo at a time!!

Welcome to KF, albertnicholas61; glad that you're here!!

I've lost faith, not in the MA, but in those who have been representatives of the MA. It's the dojo pageantry lead by those representatives!! All I want to do is learn the MA and teach the MA. They can have all of that dojo pageantry all they want because to me, the MA can do without the pageantry; the sooner the better. Imho!!