Interesting Fact...10th Degree Black Belt in Karate

You see the 10th degree black belt title thrown around everywhere...in judo, I believe it was posthumously awarded to Jigoro Kano, but since then, most heads of all styles just have this rank.

In Okinawan karate, there was no 10th degree black belt rank (seeing how Funakoshi promoted his first black belts on the Japanese mainland in the 1920s, I believe, the system in karate is very young, anyway). Chosin Chibana became the head of the Okinawa Karate-Do Association when it was formed in 1956 (Okinawa was still relatively new to the whole rigid, structural "ryu" system of Japan, most styles weren't...they were just what one instructor taught and many students would have many teachers who were most likely friends with other teachers).

As Chibana was a 9th degree black belt (which was just as arbitrary as the following...), he was just summarily given the 10th degree rank, since he was the president in charge of the organization (a chain of command deal) which included several styles. Therefore, the 10th degree rank was merely an arbitrary affair, even more arbitrary than the belt system itself...

He promoted 4 people to 9th degree black belt...but after Chibana died, they sort of gave themselves the 10th degree ranking anyway. Even if this example is only for Okinawan karate (and for one organization, albeit probably the largest of the time), it goes to show you the trend in development of the 10th degree black belt title...

In other words...I just think it is funny how you can go to websites and see karate lineages with 10th degree black belts all over the place...it really is a new innovation...

Don't get me wrong, I respect my 10th degree style head as well as Chosin Chibana...but I still think its funny how all that politics works (a bit sad too)...

I agree that 10th dan is just kind of thrown out there for everyone who starts their own style or is a senior rank at the time of their styles' leaders' demise. Unfortunately, it is a direct response to the "microwave society" we live in. People are more impressed by a snappy title than the true ability, and more important, the ability of a person to teach.

One of the last, and greatest martial arts masters of our time, and a lifelong and very active practioner of Shorinryu Matsumura Seito Karate was the late OSensei Soken Hohan. OSensei was, I believe, 93 years old when he died and had begun his study of this system when he was 16 or so. OSensei taught classes up until the last few years of his life, and IMHO, I believe he was a legitimate 10th Dan Master of his system. As other sensei's that I know have told me (I don't know firsthand), OSensei was bouncing young men around the dojo while he was in his late 80's with little effort.

I agree that there are FAR to many 10th Dans in this world, and just because you start your own system doesn't automatically make you that rank IMHO. It needs to be after a lifetime (40-60 years old is NOT a lifetime!) of study of the art....ANY art!

I remember reading in Black Belt Magazine years ago that there are more "10th Degree Masters" in ANY major city in the USA then there are in the entire Orient. I lived in Houston for 6 months and have travelled a fair amount around this country, and I believe it! Just look at the yellow pages in any large city (NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston or Atlanta for example) and you will see tons of "10th Dan Masters" out there.

BAH!

just wondering when u start teaching karate can u still train for a higher belt or do u stay at that eg my sifu is 4th dan in tang soo do and his brother also our sifu is a 1st dan but i think thats where there staying but every sifu i know from friends training never actually leran more just teach

I think it was at age 13 he started, but my memory is a bit hazy...

O'sensei was really adept in his old age from what I've heard from my instructor, and seen on a tape.

In my country, there are so many 10th Dans it's absolutly hilarious. I actually have a fun time laughing at them, insisting to be referred to as soke and grandmaster....

It is all a numbers game of politics, ego, boistering, and skill claims.

I had learn more from streetbrawlers than most claiming high Dans.

In fact, I have seen high Dans get beat by those streetbrawlers.

I find the topic itself quite humorous because in goju-ryu the founder of the style never awarded a single black belt to anyone yet somehow I wear one something I always found odd.

I find the topic itself quite humorous because in goju-ryu the founder of the style never awarded a single black belt to anyone yet somehow I wear one something I always found odd.

Politics andPaper...It is all materialistic man.

in judo, I believe it was posthumously awarded to Jigoro Kano

Actually, Kano achieved 10th Dan in life, and was awarded 12th Dan (White Belt) post humously...he refused to promote himself higher than 10th Dan, he didn't think he was good enough. He is the only 12th Dan in Judo history, and 11th and 12th Dan are now defunct.

Sorry...my first Instructor always taught us to nitpick

Actually, Kano achieved 10th Dan in life, and was awarded 12th Dan (White Belt) post humously...he refused to promote himself higher than 10th Dan, he didn't think he was good enough. He is the only 12th Dan in Judo history, and 11th and 12th Dan are now defunct.

 

Sorry...my first Instructor always taught us to nitpick

This is what I have been trying to say for a very long time. Kano refused to promote HIMSELF past 10th Dan, This is just screwed up. Who decided to use the Dan ranking system in the first place. It used to be being a black belt was good enough, but now it is automatically "what Dan are you?". It is getting out of hand. Since when does anyone "self-promote", that is the biggest bunch of hogwash I have ever seen.

Now that I am done ranting, this is the reason that my current instructor is going against the Dan rank system. He is considering not even using the Dan grade anymore, but that once you are a black belt that is good enough. If he does this I think I will have to consider my current Dan rank and if I will just let it go.