Tempest

I'm a little over 2 hours away from Manhattan. Darn. I was going to point you to some friends of mine who are Fiorists up that way.

I love that I have been absent from these forums, mostly practicing and teaching HEMA, and come back to find folks have been reading and practicing HEMA. That is awesome! Zaine, your profile shows you are in the Dallas area. I recently relocated there myself. Bushido_Man, I seem to recall that you are in Kansas. I am CERTAIN I have asked this before, but are you anywhere near Manhattan?

I think that basic attack/defense drills are certainly worth doing. That said, they should probably look more like this: Than like this: That second video was... not good. And did not show practical techniques or a good way to learn striking at even a basic level.

Hmm. If you are not able to commit to a traditional BJJ gym, have you considered a competitive Judo school? Or an MMA school with a decent wrestling program? There are a variety of options available. However, if you insist that you must do this alone, here are some things you will need: 1. Training partners. You cannot learn to grapple without bodies, particularly resisting bodies. 2. Space. Preferably space covered in mats. You won't WANT to grapple for very long without these. 3. A decent curriculum to learn the fundamentals from. My recommendation for beginners is The Gracie Combatives program supplemented by a Grapplers Guide membership. 4. Good Luck. Let us know how it goes for you.

I can bring a ton of loaners. As for how it would work, well first we would need a date and a location. After that, I, and possibly one of our other longsword instructors, would come up. We would bring loaner swords, mostly polymers but some steel, some copies of books that are good to look in to, and other kit that would be good have to play with. We would teach some classes, show the equipment, and be available for discussions on getting a study group started, finding sources to work from, and contacting the wider community. All with the intent of, hopefully, kick starting a local group for you to play with.

I've got some of the reproduced fechtbuchs. Love them. Absolutely love them. If I had a place to train around here, I'd do it. Well, if you ever get down to Wichita, look up a guy named Robert Trudeau. He is a former training partner of mine. Also look up a guy named Chris Holzman, probably the best military saber guy I have ever known. I am unaware of any HEMA specific groups in Hays, but also look in to your local SCA group. At the very least you will find sparring partners there. No HEMA in Hays, and we used to have and SCA group, and we sparred often, but it all folded up, and the nearest group that actually met to do things was abuut an hour and a half drive away. I haven't checked the ARMA website lately, but I need to, to see if there are any new books they are recommending. Jesus. I just looked it up. You are FAR from everything out there in Hays. The nearest school to you that I am aware of is over in Manhattan and that is what like 2 - 2.5 hours away? If you are interested, we could arrange to do a seminar or event for you and whoever you like locally. Try and get something up and running.

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Actually, that is the very first reason why I left my karate club, I was sick of its turning direction to competitions and nothing else. Probably because I'm a beginner in judo, everything is new and seems amusing to me, but I am afraid I will feel the same after some years. And it seems not many new techniques are being introduced at the same speed as old techniques are removed. I am not very familiar with sports judo-I do not watch videos very often, but I hope sparring in judo will not turn into sparring in karate, in which only a few techniques (like kizami zuki and ura mawashi geri) are used. Ok, so something you should be aware of in actual fighting. Both sparring and competition, and as a direct result, serious self defense. What works, works. People use what is effective for them. One of the reasons to DO alive training such as randori and shiai is to learn what is really effective against an intelligently resisting opponent. One of the best Judoka to ever live, Toshihiko Koga, used one throw most of the time. He KNEW the others, could defend against them, and could and did use them as set ups, but his weapon was Ippon Seoi-nage. Before you can worry about what the rules restrict or why, hint it's a lot more complicated than your Sensei is telling you, you first need to develop a weapon that is effective for you in the rule set you are going to be playing in.

Meh, that’s a loaded statement. If your skill set is significantly greater than your opponents, it can be a good position. Other things that influence this is your opponents skill set on his feet vs yours. But you’ve got to be really skilled. Like great, not just good Or at least better than the person you are grappling with. I know lots of people that I can wreck in my guard. And I am not great. Or even really good. But I am better than them. I still think top position is preferable, but especially at the white/blue/purple level there can be significant skill gaps that still don't mean the more skilled person is great. Just that they are better than the person they are playing. What gets scary is the fact that these gaps exist all the way up to black belt. Where there are black belts that can wreck most everyone who ISNT a black belt, but still get wrecked in their own division like they just started. Nature of the game I guess. Sure in a grappling context I agree- however I’m speaking mostly of a fighting situation as opposed to grappling only Even so. As long as your BJJ has included some live training of striking defense, you only have to be better than the person who is in your guard. Although strikes do give them more options, remember that they also expose things as well. I think we have talked before about the idea that a good guard is a dangerous guard. If, either in a fight or a grappling situation, your opponent feels he can just sit in your guard you are not being active enough off your back. Every one of those punches should be potentially exposing an arm-lock or a back take. But, in order to make that a thing, you have to put the gloves on and train your guard against strikes sometimes. And many BJJ schools don't do that. Well in a nutshell the ability to have an effective guard when strikes are involved is dependant on your ability to keep his posture broken (or his inability to get it...). Not everyone in bjj understands the concept of keeping posture broken as many prefer the double wrist control because it prevents grips and makes passing difficult. We’re going on quite an tangent here speaking about people with a developed guard game. Someone who’s learning their grappling at a non grappling school is going to be far below the grade in comparison and therefore should not be jumping guard in a fight And someone who is learning their grappling AT a grappling school, when going against a non-grappler, won't need to. Pulling guard is very much an artifact of one type of grappler fighting another with a different skill-set. You pull guard against a better wrestler, not against your idiot friend who took that Krav class that one time. In a grappling context, yes- it’s perfectly normal and common. If I can put this convo into context I’ll describe the particular video I saw. It was a reputable striking style with a name instructor that I don’t want to say less I be accused of trashing said style. So the scenario starts off with strikes as the guy narrates it. Speaking from the perspective of the striker: “My opponent gets too close and clinches, where I’m able to pull guard” Followed by the guy jumping, not just pulling- full guard from a neutral over/under clinch. Imagine May weather training for an mma fight with this strategy- thats what I mean when I say they’re a little “off” with their strategy Well, without the underlying fundamentals that make that strategy a viable one, which would by necessity be conveyed only through long hours of grappling training, they are essentially conceding a critical advantage and possibly the whole fight to their opponent. But if idiots want to idiot, not much we can do to stop them. Other than demonstrate why almost every current UFC champion is a very high level wrestler.

Meh, that’s a loaded statement. If your skill set is significantly greater than your opponents, it can be a good position. Other things that influence this is your opponents skill set on his feet vs yours. But you’ve got to be really skilled. Like great, not just good Or at least better than the person you are grappling with. I know lots of people that I can wreck in my guard. And I am not great. Or even really good. But I am better than them. I still think top position is preferable, but especially at the white/blue/purple level there can be significant skill gaps that still don't mean the more skilled person is great. Just that they are better than the person they are playing. What gets scary is the fact that these gaps exist all the way up to black belt. Where there are black belts that can wreck most everyone who ISNT a black belt, but still get wrecked in their own division like they just started. Nature of the game I guess. Sure in a grappling context I agree- however I’m speaking mostly of a fighting situation as opposed to grappling only Even so. As long as your BJJ has included some live training of striking defense, you only have to be better than the person who is in your guard. Although strikes do give them more options, remember that they also expose things as well. I think we have talked before about the idea that a good guard is a dangerous guard. If, either in a fight or a grappling situation, your opponent feels he can just sit in your guard you are not being active enough off your back. Every one of those punches should be potentially exposing an arm-lock or a back take. But, in order to make that a thing, you have to put the gloves on and train your guard against strikes sometimes. And many BJJ schools don't do that. Well in a nutshell the ability to have an effective guard when strikes are involved is dependant on your ability to keep his posture broken (or his inability to get it...). Not everyone in bjj understands the concept of keeping posture broken as many prefer the double wrist control because it prevents grips and makes passing difficult. We’re going on quite an tangent here speaking about people with a developed guard game. Someone who’s learning their grappling at a non grappling school is going to be far below the grade in comparison and therefore should not be jumping guard in a fight And someone who is learning their grappling AT a grappling school, when going against a non-grappler, won't need to. Pulling guard is very much an artifact of one type of grappler fighting another with a different skill-set. You pull guard against a better wrestler, not against your idiot friend who took that Krav class that one time.

Meh, that’s a loaded statement. If your skill set is significantly greater than your opponents, it can be a good position. Other things that influence this is your opponents skill set on his feet vs yours. But you’ve got to be really skilled. Like great, not just good Or at least better than the person you are grappling with. I know lots of people that I can wreck in my guard. And I am not great. Or even really good. But I am better than them. I still think top position is preferable, but especially at the white/blue/purple level there can be significant skill gaps that still don't mean the more skilled person is great. Just that they are better than the person they are playing. What gets scary is the fact that these gaps exist all the way up to black belt. Where there are black belts that can wreck most everyone who ISNT a black belt, but still get wrecked in their own division like they just started. Nature of the game I guess. Sure in a grappling context I agree- however I’m speaking mostly of a fighting situation as opposed to grappling only Even so. As long as your BJJ has included some live training of striking defense, you only have to be better than the person who is in your guard. Although strikes do give them more options, remember that they also expose things as well. I think we have talked before about the idea that a good guard is a dangerous guard. If, either in a fight or a grappling situation, your opponent feels he can just sit in your guard you are not being active enough off your back. Every one of those punches should be potentially exposing an arm-lock or a back take. But, in order to make that a thing, you have to put the gloves on and train your guard against strikes sometimes. And many BJJ schools don't do that.

Meh, that’s a loaded statement. If your skill set is significantly greater than your opponents, it can be a good position. Other things that influence this is your opponents skill set on his feet vs yours. But you’ve got to be really skilled. Like great, not just good Or at least better than the person you are grappling with. I know lots of people that I can wreck in my guard. And I am not great. Or even really good. But I am better than them. I still think top position is preferable, but especially at the white/blue/purple level there can be significant skill gaps that still don't mean the more skilled person is great. Just that they are better than the person they are playing. What gets scary is the fact that these gaps exist all the way up to black belt. Where there are black belts that can wreck most everyone who ISNT a black belt, but still get wrecked in their own division like they just started. Nature of the game I guess.

Yes it happens. You do sort of get used to it, and it is one of the reasons to continue to do so. However, and this is very important, one thing that can exacerbate this situation is if you are not keeping your neck supple and good head position throughout the rolls. This can cause increased dizziness from tension in the neck even if you manage to avoid your head contacting the mat. Which you should. So try to focus on those 2 things: 1. Don't let your head contact the mat during rolls. 2. Keep your neck supple rather than stiff to reduce tension and thus reduce likely dizziness. After a couple of years of doing this and if you are confident that you are doing it correctly, and the issue persists, talk to your doctor about it. You not thinking you have a vertigo issue or a vaso-vagal issue or some other thing that can cause problems like this does not mean it is so. Good luck, and I hope the issue clears up.

They don't. The applications contained within the Kata do. You train to deal with every possible attack method. I think the problem is Modern Karate's interpretation of the Kata. Stuck on basics. "This is the way we punch". The problem is there is no evolution to the art. No Yudansha should be punching the way they did when they were Mudansha. No Kodansha punches like they did when they were Yudansha. You evolve as you learn and begin to understand your art and it's combative methodology. To say that a straight punch is the only way a Karateka will punch you in a fight is preposterous. To say that the only thing you will ever defend against and therefore the only thing your applications should focus on in training is a straight "Karate" punch is equally preposterous. The founders fought in life and death conflicts. Do you or anyone else here actually feel that the only lessons the founders passed down in which are contained in the Kata are just ways to deal with basics?? You're over simplifying it. "BAck to Basics" again. The Kata's applications are not created to deal with the most basic of attacks nor as popularly believed to deal with the untrained street thug, they are a compilation of techniques and applications that had been tried and tested in battle and had been proven to be effective. This means to deal with advanced means of attack from trained combatants. Yes there are applications to deal with the most common methods of attack (this even includes basic Kihon techniques) but that is not what it is restricted to as you are pointing out. If this is the way that you train in Kata, forgive me if this comes off judgmental, but you're doing it wrong. My point was that no one strikes one way no matter the circumstance. My point about a Boxer's jab is, you wouldn't throw a straight jab if you did not have a target to connect with. Instead you would adapt and alter the angle in order to connect. Karate is no different. To put an art into a neat little box of basic kihon and call it combat effective makes no sense and is false in it's premise. This is Modern Karate not the art that the founders handed down. You are describing an art altered to teach school children not one designed for combat. The art that the founders created was specifically for combat. The mere suggestion that they would limit the applications and principles to basics is missing the point entirely. I understand that some train in what they think are the founders applications but are in actuality training in what I would call literal interpretation. In this case yes you only use the basic Kihon of reverse punch, front kicks and the like and you only defend against the like. This is NOT what the Kata represents nor the lessons that it contains. You know, one of these days we are gonna have to get together and do some training so you can show me what you are on about with all of this. I say that because while everything you SAY sounds great, I have never experienced ANY of it in a Karate dojo that I have been in. I believe that you train and teach your students the way you describe, but it is not at ALL common in Karate to train those kinds of applications at all. And even less so to train them in an alive manner to the point where they can be executed in a fight against an intelligently resisting opponent. Do you have any videos of your students training or sparring that I could see? Or of them competing? Because it seems like if I could have trained with you, I might not have ever left Karate in the first place.

Tempest, in a fight, you are correct. A high school (or especially collegiate wrestler) probably has an advantage over a karateka. Why? Part of the reason is that those are competitive combat sports where you have to be an extremely good athlete in the first place to make the team (especially college). These wrestlers train, rather brutally, all the time and compete all the time. Wrestlers train like this because it is what is required, but it isn't the brutality of the training, although that helps. Judoka and Jiujiteros are also more prepared for a fight than a typical Karateka, despite in some cases not training as hard. But on the street you don’t know what they will face. It really doesn’t matter what you train them for as long as you are honest about it. But know that a false sense of confidence without alive training methods is a recipe for disaster for those students. So you are a Catch Wrestler? Cool. Where did you learn from? That is not a common style. Did you ever study BJJ anywhere as well? If you have been through these competitions, you should know the value of aliveness in training. Trying to learn to deal with violence without that athletic component and without that alive training method is like trying to learn to shoot for the first time by balancing on one leg and closing your eyes because you saw a trick shooter do that once. There are fundamental fighting skills you MUST have, and if you lack them, then you must train in an alive manner in order to acquire them. Part of the issue is most people have no idea that they lack them because they have never been in a fight. So, you just said that you could not beat them using your Karate when there was nothing important at stake, but then tried to say that if we raise the stakes you could win a fight you would have lost by escalating the level of violence. It doesn’t take any training to poke someone in the eye. And the wrestler will be in a much better position to do that after they take you down. And your knife has nothing to do with Karate or martial arts as a self defense proposal at all, as now we are getting in to armed conflict, which is a whole other kettle of fish. A dirty trick is not a substitute for fundamental fighting skills. It is not going to reliably save you. I cannot tell you the number of times I have been poked in the eye during training. It’s annoying, but it is just that, an annoyance. No one is going to let you get into the position to jdo one of those deep eye gouges in a fight unless you know how to control the clinch and defend the take-down well enough to get into that position. And that requires alive training of just that position.