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KarateKen
Green Belt
Joined: 12 Nov 2021
Posts: 455
Location: Dojo
Styles: Karate
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 Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:01 am Post subject: Active Shooter Training |
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| Do any of your martial arts training include active shooter training? If so, how is it different than what is taught in schools? |
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DarthPenguin
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 908
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:54 am Post subject: |
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I would be surprised if anyone's style covered that - off the top of my head the only style i can think of that might do so is 'proper' krav maga - i was once told by someone that real krav maga is not taught outside the israeli military as a lot of the techniques require you to use a rifle/gun to perform them. bushido_man is in law enforcement i believe so he might learn some tactics for defence from guns as part of his work, but you would need to ask him.
For everyone else i think the best style of defence is , as an old instructor of mine used to teach, to utilise this technique :
1) lift both hands into the air
2) ask politely, what would you like? Please take it
3) hopefully not be shot
Never considered 'gun defences' as worth learning. Gun crime is pretty much non existent over here (no one has guns) so it wouldn't be a good usage of time really for me |
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2284
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:28 am Post subject: |
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My experience reflects DarthPenguin's. Most people holding a gun to you aren't looking for your life, they're looking for your stuff. They can have my stuff. A person with a gun will find that I am 100% cooperative.
In an active shooter situation, like at an office, my school never taught us anything different than what the general knowledge is. Run, Hide, Fight is king in the U.S. when it comes to an active shooter situation.
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Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
https://www.instagram.com/nordic_karate/ |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2734
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:26 am Post subject: |
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My late Sensei was working on putting together a program for this, actually, but he obviously passed away before it was ready. He had trained with FBI instructors and DEA agents, in addition to his diverse martial arts background, and spent a lot of time studying these sorts of scenarios. He and I discussed the tactics and techniques for such a thing, but it's certainly rare in a country where, unfortunately, it is sorely needed.
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Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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DarthPenguin
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 908
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| Wastelander wrote: |
| My late Sensei was working on putting together a program for this, actually, but he obviously passed away before it was ready. He had trained with FBI instructors and DEA agents, in addition to his diverse martial arts background, and spent a lot of time studying these sorts of scenarios. He and I discussed the tactics and techniques for such a thing, but it's certainly rare in a country where, unfortunately, it is sorely needed. |
Sounds like an interesting course and being informed by properly informed individuals too!
Only issue i would have is that a large part of using such training in reality is mindset : couple of simple examples i have for that - a bjj bb i know openly says he wouldn't be confident in a bar fight if it broke out as his mentality is not suited to that type of confrontation; multiple instances of where an active shooter situation has broken out in the US and people (either working or bystanders) who are armed have not rushed in to engage the shooter. Please note i'm not being judgemental either way here as self preservation is entirely rational as is the instinct to save others.
No-one will know if they have the correct mindset until they are in the situation that calls for it and that is unfortunately too late (obvious exceptions being those who train for it in the military or law enforcement). |
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2360
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| No it doesn't include any at all, as it is illegal to own guns where I live with very few exceptions to that rule. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30198
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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I think the main reason it is difficult for the general martial arts instructors to teach this kind of material is the equipment needed to make the training worth having. At work, we will train with simunitions rounds and the appropriate protection. The guns aren't cheap, the rounds aren't cheap, and the protective materials aren't cheap, making it very tough to make a good curriculum for your typical martial artist who owns a school to put together. We might only do this training once or twice a year, as well. It is possible to train the strategies and tactics that go along with these scenarios, but your really don't know what it's like until you have rounds hitting you in the chest and you get that adrenaline dump. I do believe the main issue is the cost.
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KarateKen
Green Belt
Joined: 12 Nov 2021
Posts: 455
Location: Dojo
Styles: Karate
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I think the main reason it is difficult for the general martial arts instructors to teach this kind of material is the equipment needed to make the training worth having. At work, we will train with simunitions rounds and the appropriate protection. The guns aren't cheap, the rounds aren't cheap, and the protective materials aren't cheap, making it very tough to make a good curriculum for your typical martial artist who owns a school to put together. We might only do this training once or twice a year, as well. It is possible to train the strategies and tactics that go along with these scenarios, but your really don't know what it's like until you have rounds hitting you in the chest and you get that adrenaline dump. I do believe the main issue is the cost. |
Sounds like a good point. Makes sense along with it not being part of traditional training the way some styles teach defense against a knife or a club. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16450
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:01 am Post subject: |
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Seems me to me that this type of training needs to be left with those who are experts across the board. I'm not!!
One might imagine and/or think that they're experts in this field for whatever reason(s), however, one without the required expertise in this field, one's putting undue risk where it's not welcomed.
I'd no longer put any of my students in any grave risk by teaching that which I'm not an expert in and/or give any unsound advice whatsoever. It'd be akin to me giving medical advice or even worse, teaching anything that's medical.
Engaging with an active shooter is a very serious concern. While I've the experience and knowledge whenever it comes to Shindokan as well as where the MA is concerned. Should I ever encounter a active shooter without me being properly trained, I'd use whatever necessary in order to survive, and if my MA knowledge and experience can come in play, then by all means, I'd use it with the greatest of resolve.
Very important in my opinion is that us instructors of the MA take the necessary steps to train when it comes to active shooters, however, even with that training it'd be akin to a MA beginner teaching the MA with any effectiveness with any certainty.
Having some training in this regard is NOT any better than nothing none because lives are at risk because I'm the furthest thing but an expert in this field. It might take quite some time to become proficient enough to teach how to deal with an active shooter that can give my students a better fighting chance, but if I assume said expertise, than not only have I done a disservice to my students, but I've put my student's life at risk.
Imho!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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on the post.
