Another physics discussion

[paolung]

Vyvial,

 

That's pretty interesting. I heard WT/WC had a 'shadowless kick' of their own but had never heard anything other than it existed. thanks for sharing that bit of info

[Practise is the Key]

We can't find "http://www.neokarate.net/lingo/term/noshadowkick.asp"

[Warp Spider]

Uhh, the fact that it moves faster than light distorts the RESULTS of the experiment, it doesn't distort time itself.

 

I don't see how this interacts with the experiemental data at all. Nothing was moving faster than light in the experiement.

That's why it agrees with everything else despite not necessarily being true. It's an indistinguishable facsimile of time being warped, without it actually being warped.

 

So it's just a big coincidence that, for reasons you cannot even form an hypothesis over, that clocks moving in opposite directions fall out of sync and do so in the manner and degree that was predicted by relativity before the experiement was performed?

 

And you assert this with absolutely no evidence which offers even a reasonable cause to dispute relativity?

 

Holy smokes. I've explained it several times in this thread already, but maybe I can make it even simpler. Perhaps you've heard of the Doppler effect, whereby a sound may be percieved and in fact is transmitted at a frequency different than the object is actually oscillating. This doesn't mean that the frequency of the object has changed, but by any means of percieving that sound, it would suggest that the object is oscillating at a different frequency.

 

Like the doppler effect, a clock can read an inaccurate time after travelling at great speed, not because time itself has actually been changed, but because the perception of it has changed.

[Valithor]

Interesting idea...

 

Do you subscribe to the notion that the speed of light is constant irrespective of the speed of the observer?

 

Also, if time is not altered, but only the perception of it.. that would require there to exist an absolute time. Which would also mean, that at some point/speed, your perception of time must be correct. This would indicate that you are at rest with respect to some absolute frame of reference?

 

Has not the existance of the aether been disproven? Or can you similarly discount that evidence with your above hypothesis?

[JerryLove]

Holy smokes. I've explained it several times in this thread already, but maybe I can make it even simpler. Perhaps you've heard of the Doppler effect, whereby a sound may be percieved and in fact is transmitted at a frequency different than the object is actually oscillating.

 

Of course, the movement of the source of a wave enlongates o rshortens a wave-cycle because it's moving toward or away from the observer. The net result is that peaks hit with a different frequency than they were created at.

This doesn't mean that the frequency of the object has changed, but by any means of percieving that sound, it would suggest that the object is oscillating at a different frequency.

You cannot tell the frequency with which a wave is created without more information than its arrival frequency.

Like the doppler effect, a clock can read an inaccurate time after travelling at great speed, not because time itself has actually been changed, but because the perception of it has changed.

 

So the clocks have seen a different amount of time because they have been moving relative to time causing time waves to peak at a different relative frequency? That sounds pretty much like special relativitiy.

[Drunken Monkey]

but doppler effect does not have anything to do with how the cesium clocks "read" their time, do they?

[JerryLove]

It depends, and that's the problem. Relativity does talk about time dilation (which holds some similarity to the dopler effect); but for that to occur, time must "exist" and speed must effect how time effects you; which is the anthesis of Warp's position.

[Drunken Monkey]

so for a dopler like effect to affect the observations, speed MUST affect time.

 

which warp spider says it doesn't, so it can't?

[Warp Spider]

I didn't say it was the same as the doppler effect, I was merely providing an analogy of how something can appear in all respects to be different than it actually is. For instance, those clocks may appear in all respects to have suffered some sort of time warping, but that doesn't mean that they did - just like in the case of the doppler effect, just because the frequency of a sound is different, doesn't mean that the frequency that the oscillating object that generates it has changed it's frequency.

[JerryLove]

For instance, those clocks may appear in all respects to have suffered some sort of time warping, but that doesn't mean that they did

 

Can you offer even a workable hypothesis on what other phenomina might explain it?