So many grades...so little time

[Shorinryu Sensei]

That's interesting Sens55. I don't like it or agree with it, but that's interesting.

 

In my mind, I see that as pure and simple...FRAUD! Representing yourself as something you're not.

 

From personal experience, that TKD "Master" I mentioned earlier came to watch my class a few times, and during one of them he presented me a certificate for a 3rd degree black belt in his organization. He told me it was as legitimate as any other his organization gives out (which to me, doesn't speak very well of that organization). Nowhere on the certificate did it say honorary or anything other than a full fledged 3rd Dan in the AKKA.

 

I politely thanked him (in front of my class remember), but afterwards I told him I really didn't like it because I had never taken a TKD class in my life.

 

Come to find out (this is after class), he asked me if I would give him a 1-2nd Dan in Shorinryu in exchange for the one he gave me. I politely refused and told him if he wanted to join my class..wait about 3 years or so..yeah, I'd give him a 1st Dan when he was ready.

 

It wasn't long after that that our friendship died out, and I don't miss it at all.

[gheinisch]

This might be off subject a little but recently we had a gentlemen show up at one of our beginner classes saying he was a black belt in different styles and wanted to know if he could teach. Our Hanshi was not there that night so we told him he needed to talk with him about that. This man may be very capable in his style but knows nothing about the style that we pratice. He did come back on a day that Hanshi was there and watched the class and talked with our Hanshi after it was over. Our Hanshi asked him some questions and told him he was welcome to come and work out with us as long as he didn't wear his belt and teaching was out of the question until he earned shodan in our system. Hanshi was afraid he might be trying to win over students to start a school but after talking with him feels he was just looking for a place to work out. We'll see, haven't seen him since that day.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I am a DSI member and know Rick Moneymaker. He founded TORITE JUTSU on the site https://www.dragonsociety.com is a list of the groups who he recieved the founder acknowledgment from. I can tell you he has been training for over 25 years, does it full time. He has amazing knowledge of KYUSHO ( vital point striking) and TUITE ( joint maniplulation ). Since many arts use the same KATAS , Kicks , strikes. A person can be ready to test for rank much faster when training as a new off the street person. I can tell you that he is not a " BELT FACTORY " type of instructor, one better know whats what come test time.

 

I sent that URL on the Dragon Society to my sensei, who is a 6th Dan in OSensei Sokens system and is/was a senior student of Sensei Yuichi Kuda's (deceased) and asked him to check out the "Secret Notes" of OSensei Soken's that are on that page and give me his opinion on the authenticity of it.

 

He replied last night-----"Hi Paul,

 

I`ve seen them before, they`re fake. I asked master Kuda about it years ago. He said bulls**t.

 

Larry"

 

Since I knew Sensei Kuda as a man of honor and integrity, and VERY well respected in the martial arts community on Okinawa, and recognised as an authority on OSensei Soken's Matsumura Seito Karate--that's good enough for me.

 

Sensei Kuda was never in the art for money. What little he made financially from teaching the art to others was used to support his family, and he lived a simple life. he did not travel extensively and teach weekly seminars to massive amounts of students in this country (USA) or others.

 

Yes, he came to the US a number of times to work with us, but basically his expenses were paind and he pocketed very little profit. Not because we are cheap, but rather because he didn't want to make any profits from his teachings.

 

That is the HUGE differance between Sensei Kuda and the majority of "Masters". He taught and spread "the word" because he loved the art and wanted to share it with others, not to line his pockets.

[Darce]

is his name actually moneymaker? Fits him.

[kempocos]

shorinryu - did you miss the begining statement

 

"

 

Some people claim that there are "secrets" in the martial arts. Others will claim that there are no "secrets". Some will use such topics for marketing purposes and to make themself appear more than what they are.

 

In keeping with the tradition of the Dragon Society in regards to exposing the truth concerning pressure points and their usage in the martial arts, we present these "secret" notes to the public and allow you to decide for yourself. "

 

Since Osensei Soken spoke only spanish and japanese it is safe to say these notes where translated. I would also comment on the word secret being in qoutes.

 

The comments about his name are weak and I will not comment on such weak arguments

 

I would suggest knowing the man before passing judgement, Since dropping names seems to impress some such as SHORINRYU SENSEI the following person is just one person from OKINAWA that respects Tom Muncy and Rick Moneymaker. Tetsuhiro Hokama 9th Dan Hanshi, President of the Okinawa Goju-Ryu Kenshi- Kai Karate-do,

 

Kobudo Association and founder of the first Karate museum in the World.

 

http://www.uskenshikai.com/uskenshikai/Senseihok.html

 

To think that OKINAWA , JAPAN are void of Martail Arts Fraud and political bullshit is being ignorant. I would look very hard at ALL instructors. If you doubt his credintials email him and ask I am sure if any are honary he will tell you.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

shorinryu - did you miss the begining statement

 

" Some people claim that there are "secrets" in the martial arts. Others will claim that there are no "secrets". Some will use such topics for marketing purposes and to make themself appear more than what they are.

 

No, I didn't miss that. I believe there are no secrets to the arts, just things you haven't learned yet. But correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Moneymaker a student of George Dillman's, and this is where he gets the "secret" notes from? If so Dillman has been claiming for years that he got these "secret" techniques from OSensei Soken..correct? To my knowledge, every student and follower of Soken's has cried PHOOEY to this claim.

The comments about his name are weak and I will not comment on such weak arguments.

 

I'll assume that wasn't directed at me, as I made no mention of that...and my last name isn't that great either!

Since dropping names seems to impress some such as SHORINRYU SENSEI the following person is just one person from OKINAWA that respects Tom Muncy and Rick Moneymaker. Tetsuhiro Hokama 9th Dan Hanshi, President of the Okinawa Goju-Ryu Kenshi- Kai Karate-do,

 

Kobudo Association and founder of the first Karate museum in the World.

 

I'm assuming you're talking about my comments about sensei Kuda here? It's not a matter of dropping names, but rather to let you know where my information comes from, and the background of it. As for Tetsuhiro Hokama, I've never heard of the man, but I don't follow other systems and who's who in the martial arts. I have plenty to keep me occupied just within my own system.

To think that OKINAWA , JAPAN are void of Martail Arts Fraud and political * is being ignorant. I would look very hard at ALL instructors. If you doubt his credintials email him and ask I am sure if any are honary he will tell you.

 

I never said this either. Can you deny that the United States is full of self-promoted "Masters" of various arts? I doubt it. And I'm sure if I emailed Sensei Moneymaker, he'd be glad to copy and paste his credentials off his website for my verification. I will still stand by what I said, that I don't believe it is physically possible for ANY person to reach a 9-10th Dan level in more than one system (most never see even close to that in ONE system), let alone all that Sensei Moneymaker's claims.

 

I see no resolution or benefit of continuing this discussion, as I won't convince you, nor you me. I have nothing but respect for people that have worked hard in their systems and deserve the rank that they have. I do not respect people that make claims which to me, are impossible to achieve.

 

Just out of curiosity, how old is Sensei Moneymaker?

[kempocos]

Shorin - Moneymaker had been associated with DILLMAN at one time , however they have long since seperated. Perhaps the opening comments on OSENSEI SOKENS notes were directed at DILLMAN.

 

 

 

To my knowledge Rick Monemaker is about 50

 

You bring alot of good points in regards to ranking , and since a few have " associtation" I would not be surprised by the honarary from the JENPO and TKD rankings. However the OKINAWIAN styles even your style use all the same KATAS and the possability for rank testing is vaild.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Shorin - Moneymaker had been associated with DILLMAN at one time , however they have long since seperated. Perhaps the opening comments on OSENSEI SOKENS notes were directed at DILLMAN.

 

Well, IMHO, that's a plus on Sensei Moneymaker's record right there, and he takes a step or two upwards in my estimation....and I don't even know the reason why they split! lol No doubt that is where he got his copy of OSensei's notes, was from Dillman.

 

 

To my knowledge Rick Monemaker is about 50.

 

Well, I'm 50 also (51 next month ) and have been doing this one art for 29 years this coming January, and I still have lots and lots to learn about this one system, let alone 7-8 other systems. I still can't imagine anybody being able to comprehend, let along be master level in more than one art. Similar arts withstanding, they all have their unique ways of doing things, not just minor kata differances. Even within the various branches of Shorinryu..or TKD if you'd rather, there are some rather profound differances in philosophy, execution of technique, stances, kata, theory, histoy..etc. Yes, they are similar, but different enough to be classified as unique and seperate arts.

You bring alot of good points in regards to ranking , and since a few have " associtation" I would not be surprised by the honarary from the JENPO and TKD rankings. However the OKINAWIAN styles even your style use all the same KATAS and the possability for rank testing is vaild.

 

Yes, I imagine they all have the same kata in name, but from the books I have read, videos I have seen, and a few sensei that I have had the opportunity to watch and train with from other Shorinryu systems..the katas are close in many ways, but they do have some rather radical differances. Another thing that comes to mind is how do you keep these various arts, with similar kata, seperate in your mind when you are doing them? How can you do, for example, Pinan Shodan from the Orthodox Shoinryu, then change to the Matsubiashi (sp?) version, then the goju version, then the TKD version, etc?

 

I don't know. Logically, it just seems impossible to me. Maybe, if all I had to do during the day for the past 30+ years or so, is practice different martial arts..I maybe could do it. But little things like feeding my family, keeping a roof over our heads..stuff like that, always seems to interfer.

[kempocos]

As a younger artist (44) I have studied several arts with RYUKYU kEMPO being the core. Much of my stance is when people review a few comments on a web page a draw ocnclusions from such inofrmation without validation. I enjoyed your responses for the fact they contained, well facts.

 

As Taika Oyata once said to a class I was in " only a mind that is completly open can learn." I try to always look at others opions of myself as well as those I respect with that in mind.