Gun Kata

[Treebranch]

Not necessarily true antichem. Did you see that lawyer who was shot at close range and survived. Some old guy with a revolver wanted to kill him over some kind of money dispute right outside a court house in Van Nuys California. The victim got out of the hospital that same day. This person wasn't even trained in anything and he survived. He was shot something like seven times. He used a tree and danced around the tree to avoid the bullets.

 

Bdaze isn't Taijutsu awesome?

[Bdaze]

Taijitsu is absolutley awesome. best martial art i've ever taken.

 

 

All this gun kata stuff is great; however, it won't work. Simply put: *bang* you're dead.

 

so what happens when you run outta bullets eh? what if you don't want to use lethal force? likesay your freind is in some kind of fit of rage or has been drinking to much and comes at you with a blunt weapon or like a knife and you don''t wanna blow his head off.

 

anyway, the idea is to be prepaired in all situations. i think no martial arts trainaing can be complete without weapon and unarmed training. it's sort of like that. if you think of a loaded gun as armed and an unloaded one as unarmed, your training isn;t com,plete unless you've learned defense with both.

Um... If you're in a situation severe enough to call for bluffing with an unloaded firearm, you really should have a loaded firearm.

 

the pivitol word in your sentence is "should". you SHOULD have it loaded. but theres a pretty good chance at some point in your life you will have your gun unloaded. and what happens when someone atacks you? close your eyes and hope they go away?

[Treebranch]

Bdaze it's refreshing to have another Budo Taijutsu practitioner around here. Where do you study?

[Bdaze]

i agree, it's really cool to meet someone who does the same style. i study at....

 

The Bujinkan Dojo in manchester NH.

 

this is their web site http://www.bujinkandojo.net/

[ZR440]

Not necessarily true antichem. Did you see that lawyer who was shot at close range and survived. Some old guy with a revolver wanted to kill him over some kind of money dispute right outside a court house in Van Nuys California. The victim got out of the hospital that same day. This person wasn't even trained in anything and he survived. He was shot something like seven times. He used a tree and danced around the tree to avoid the bullets.

 

Bdaze isn't Taijutsu awesome?

 

I think it was a .22 three times. Yeah, the guy did well by dancing around, but if he was lucky the attacker didn't cut that tree in half with a .45 semi auto.

[Treebranch]

It was a 38 but that's not the point I was trying to make, but if that's what you got out of it. Great.

[Don Gwinn]

Some random thoughts on this thread in no particular order:

 

1. Gunkata is not intended to be a serious proposition. The director created it and has stated over and over that it was developed purely as a way of having a theatrical wushu-type art that could incorporate guns without being boring. It's no different and no worse than the goofy flying scenes in "Crouching Tiger." To my way of thinking, it's also more entertaining.

 

2. If you want to see a movie that actually shows how guns are used by knowledgeable fighters, go rent "Way of the Gun." Good stuff. Lesson Number One--NEVER, and I mean NEVER, dive into an old dry fountain in the courtyard of a Mexican bordello, no matter how many bagmen are shooting at you. If you see the film, you'll agree.

 

3. The reason Gunkata could never, ever work, even if the physical movements would actually avoid gun shots instead of just looking cool, is that it is based on statistical analysis. "When you are here and he is there, the temperature is thus and the ambient light is so, then he will fire a bullet precisely there and nowhere else, so you simply avoid it." In the real world, no fighting style that works is based on that kind of concept, because humans are too unpredictable. In Gunkata, your opponent would actually be more likely to shoot your dumb butt the clumsier he is!

 

I'm no expert, but that can't be positive.

 

4. If you actually DID have some way of dodging bullets, you still wouldn't want to stand still in the middle of a circle of opponents unless you could trust them to be smart enough not to fire across at each other.

 

5. That lawyer did a great job of keeping himself going when a lot of people would have laid down and died for purely psychological reasons. Handguns are underpowered weapons for all their positive attributes, and the proverbial "one shot stop" is very nearly a myth. The truth is that the large majority of handgun gunshot victims DO survive. The fact that the weapon was a .38 Spl. from what I've seen does not increase my amazement. The .38 has long been known to be an inferior stopper against anyone determined to continue the fight.

 

He used cover very well and is to be commended on his cool head. His action limited his opponent to peripheral, non-stopping targets even at close range.

 

6. The other thing to remember about handguns, besides their inferior stopping power compared to long arms or even knives in many cases, is that they are not magic talismans. Many in the MA community are fond of speaking with distaste of how firearms have made killing too easy, since any fool can point a gun and pull a trigger. Well, that's not quite true, just as any fool can't hit a high moving target with a fast, powerful kick. Both require training. Simply pointing and pulling doesn't get the job done.

 

Now, in this case, that's a good thing! But when it's you vs. your mugger, it would be better if you had trained so you'll use your front sight, squeeze the trigger, and keep firing COM until the threat goes down.

 

7. In summary:

 

Gunkata is not real or realistic, but it's wonderful to watch.

 

Equilibrium was one of the best films of the year, no matter what some effete snob at Cannes thinks.

 

When facing a handgun, the main thing is to keep your head and use your training to stay in the fight and look for a chance to counterattack or "assault through the ambush."

 

If you get shot, don't give up. Chances are good that you have not been mortally wounded unless you lie down and give up because you "know" from watching TV that people who get shot immediately fall down and die.

 

If you are forced to use a handgun in self-defense, don't assume that you can just point and shoot.

 

If you are forced to use a handgun in self-defense, don't assume that your mugger will immediately keel over, even if you shoot him in the head or heart. He may not have a TV.

[Martial_Artist]

Excellent information, Don. I would just like to add one more thing to your post.

 

Forgive me for destroying this quote, but it goes something like this:

In a gunfight you will not rise to the occasion. You will fall. You will fall to your highest level of training.

 

For some who might not know what COM means it means, "Center of Mass". Meaning the torso, or center of mass of whatever of it is you are shooting at.

 

As for handgun caliber effectiveness, there is an old saying that goes something like this, "The 'novice' argues 9mm vs .45ACP. The 'expert' shoots nothing less than a .45ACP. But the 'master' realizes that when God wants someone dead he uses a RIFLE". I'll let the audience figure that one out.

 

BTW, I hope I never have to pull a chunk of glass out of my forearm.

[ZR440]

The old saying doesn't mention how to conceal a .30-06 in your pants or coat?

[Bdaze]

The reason Gunkata could never, ever work, even if the physical movements would actually avoid gun shots instead of just looking cool, is that it is based on statistical analysis. "When you are here and he is there, the temperature is thus and the ambient light is so, then he will fire a bullet precisely there and nowhere else, so you simply avoid it."

 

good point, but it still asks one question. if this sort of thing is useless other than looking cool, what would you do in such a situation?

 

if you are UNARMED (no gun, no knife, not even a ball point pen) and there are several people, with guns, who ARE going to kill you (or at least thats what they think), what would you do? if such a gunkata wouldn't help you, is there really any training you can do to avoid beeing killed in that situation?