Threat Response Solutions (TRS)

[cymry]

Wow that's a lot. What's the Randall Brown video like?

[Coudo]

ok... this subject is getting pretty old but still...

If you are the person who advanced into foghting-space, then you failed to retreat. If you threw the first attack (especially after being the person who advanced into theother's space), then you'd better be able to convince quite a few people that you had no other viable choice...

 

the scenario wasnt you advancing into the other persons fighting space, it was him advancing into yours because you couldnt move backwards anymore (because of a wall or something similar).

 

 

I'm guessing you can't walk up to someone at random, say "I don't want to fight", and then slug them across the jaw and expect the "I tried to diffuse the situation" argument to be valid.

 

yes... but if the other person advances as you say, into your fighting space while saying something offensive, after you have said "i dont want to fight". Then you have the right to diffuse the situation.

 

 

So I can walik up to you in your juristiction and just hit you and unless I hurt you in a remarkable way, I've not committed any infraction of the law? I find that difficult to believe.

 

yes thats exactly the situation... if that wasnt the case the law could be abused (like in US)... Then you could'nt go around pushing anyone without getting sued, again I say "like in the US".

[cymry]

Hey Szorn, have you seen the Combat JKD tapes?

[JerryLove]

In the majority of the states the defender has the legal right to use the amount of force necessary to stop the attacker, up to and including the amount of force that the attacker intends to use on the defender.

 

Yes, the "recipricoral force" concept... It's horrible, but common.

If the attacker states that he intends to kill you and if it can be proven that he had the mind-set and the ability to do so, you can respond in like. In such situations pre-emptive striking is both logical and legal.

 

I don't think anyone has argued against that. Some of us have argued against specific scenerios as being ill advised.

You can nit-pick all of the scenarios that you want but in the end it's the "totality of circumstances" which will dictate your response and the charges against you, if there are any. While sitting behind a computer it becomes relatively easy to break down these scenarios and say "I would do this" or "I would do that". However, actually finding yourself in those situations becomes a completetly different story and things don't always go as planned.

But this statement is entirely non-useful isn't it?

the scenario wasnt you advancing into the other persons fighting space, it was him advancing into yours because you couldnt move backwards anymore (because of a wall or something similar).

Which I covered in the next sentance (which you omitted) where I said:

 

I have been assuming that Cymry was crossing the distance into his opponent's space, and then throwing the first punch. I don't consider this martially sound (as he's exposed himself to being hit with little reacourse in order to get that close) nor legally appropriate (he is initiating the fight).

yes... but if the other person advances as you say, into your fighting space while saying something offensive, after you have said "i dont want to fight". Then you have the right to diffuse the situation.

 

You are not interacting at all with the actual post here "If dolphins are so smart, how come they live in igloos".

yes thats exactly the situation... if that wasnt the case the law could be abused (like in US)... Then you could'nt go around pushing anyone without getting sued, again I say "like in the US".

Cool, where are you at, I've got some energetic hits I need to come practice.

[szorn]

Hey Szorn, have you seen the Combat JKD tapes?

 

Sorry to say I haven't seen those.

 

Steve

[szorn]

But this statement is entirely non-useful isn't it?

 

Not considering that most of the posters here are doing this very thing. Saying "I would do this" or "I would do that" and attempting to nit-pick the scenarios into infinity. The fact that this thread has continued this long is proof that people just don't understand the realities of how chaotic such situtaions can be.

 

Steve

[JerryLove]

Not considering that most of the posters here are doing this very thing. Saying "I would do this" or "I would do that" and attempting to nit-pick the scenarios into infinity. The fact that this thread has continued this long is proof that people just don't understand the realities of how chaotic such situtaions can be.

And yet it isn't useful because it fails to interact with the sub-topic "weather 'doing this' is a good idea"; and it isn't useful because it cannot be put to use "armed with this information, I can now...."

 

Further, it's not true in a properly general sense. Yes, to think "I will do A-B-C-D" in a very specific manner is wrong... but to not have a strategy is silly. If you look at the way I responded to the "scenerio" presented in the bar, you may notice I list no specific techniques. I do, however, talk about general levels of interaction, general tactics, general position, and basic things like "when to start fighting"... These, indeed, are the topic at had (at least the one I'm discussing).

 

Further, there is a good chance that an individual will attempt to do something he's practiced doing... so I disadvise the "put your hand on them, close to helbow range, then elbow them in the jaw" both because its tactically unsound and because its legally unsound.

[Coudo]

Ok I'm sorry about saying that you when the attacker come at you you are unable to escape Jerry, but thats how I understood cymrys scenario, I wasnt really paying attention when i read your post though and thats why I'm apologising.

 

I want to add too this conversation that I have been in a similar situation but the only difference was there that the guy backing me up to a wall was much much weaker then me (he still is) even though he is two years older and about 6 inches taller. He wouldnt have a chance against me in a fight. What i did in that situation was that i stodd still while he punched me twice and then started screaming, then when a few guys came to take him out of there he started crying (literrally) about that we were more then 10 guys aginst him, we were 5 guys and they werent even there, plus the 2 older guys who only were there to throw him out of there, besides he had 3-4 friends on his side, and then they took him away. Btw he started the fight because i told him to stop making fun of me a year before that, he has bullied me since 3:rd grade and was still doing so even though i was 16. The easiest solution to this would have been to beat him, but im really not the person who fights (unless one of my friends get beaten, then hell breakes loose. The reason to why I even was alone when he confronted me was because my friends were holding down his friends in the other side of the house.

 

 

Cool, where are you at, I've got some energetic hits I need to come practice.

 

im in the southern finland, near turku. If you dont do any damage with your energy hits, then feel free to come over.

 

ps. there are martial arts that espesially concentrates on finding energy spots that are easy accessible and that only stun the attacker, this is for one purpose only, to be able to get away unhurt from an attacker without getting sued. These are places in the body where the energy flows in the body, for example under the ear there is one spot. Anyone who knows more about this? If so, could you share your knowledge please. I would like to know more about it!

[JerryLove]

Btw he started the fight because i told him to stop making fun of me a year before that, he has bullied me since 3:rd grade and was still doing so even though i was 16.

I forget sometimes the audience to whom I speak. I'm 31. I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and I put it to use. I avoid fights at almost all costs. If a fight occurs, every effort was taken to make sure it would not, and I presume my opponent is armed and wants to kill me.

 

You and I are coming from very differnt perspectives.

If you dont do any damage with your energy hits, then feel free to come over.

They do a tremendous amout of damage, but lack good, external, indicators... that was part of my point.

 

Here, battery is defined as "intentional and unwanted physical contact". This doesn't make bumping into someone squeezing into an elevator "battery", but it does mean that it makes no difference how hard you hit.

 

I disagree *very* heavily with the idea of reciprical force... It's like saying that if you go to war with a smaller country, you should use less and older gear. I don't know how much force someone else has, or is willing to use... and I don't want to find out.

ps. there are martial arts that espesially concentrates on finding energy spots that are easy accessible and that only stun the attacker, this is for one purpose only, to be able to get away unhurt from an attacker without getting sued.

 

That's very easy to do to a "voulenteer", but very difficult against a determined attacker.

These are places in the body where the energy flows in the body, for example under the ear there is one spot. Anyone who knows more about this? If so, could you share your knowledge please. I would like to know more about it!

I am reclicant to teach either pressure-point or energy work via posts on a discussion board... too accidentally dangerous for all involved. If you are really looking for non-leathal methods that you can learn remotely; I'd tend to push you toward a grappling art (Aki-jitsu and it's various off-shoot arts).

 

That said, if you ever find yourself in FL, feel free to let me know... I'll buy you lunch and we can talk about energy and pressure and arts and such .

[Coudo]

You and I are coming from very differnt perspectives.

 

Yup, about as different as it can get !

 

 

Here, battery is defined as "intentional and unwanted physical contact". This doesn't make bumping into someone squeezing into an elevator "battery", but it does mean that it makes no difference how hard you hit.

 

Yes, that wasnt really what i implicated with

Then you could'nt go around pushing anyone without getting sued

What I meant was that if youre mad at someone, and push him offensively away from you (like if you wanted to start a fight) then you could'nt be sued, if you have'nt hurt him in any physical way (atleast not in finland)

 

I guess it is a similar situation, if a guy backs you up against a wall and you stun him with an elbow against his face/neck and then go away, this situation ofcourse has got the difference that your not initiating a fight, youre diffusing a possible fight.

 

 

That said, if you ever find yourself in FL, feel free to let me know... I'll buy you lunch and we can talk about energy and pressure and arts and such .

 

I'll do that