Drunken Monkey Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 well that's the thing. the gracies challenged a lot of people, not just emin but somehow none of these guys were ever fought. instead we had fights with people they had paid. anyway. back to the videos for one final time. using your sources there is now only one instance where a wing chun guy lost to a mma guy. that still gives a 100% lose statistic against wing chun BUT it is only from one source. i will finish by saying that i just don't like statistics and i don't trust videos that i don't know the origins of. that was all i ways trying to say. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenStar Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 until more of the wc guys step up, those vids are all you have to go on. It amazes me how everytime some guy loses, everyone is so quick to say "well, he had no skill anyway..." Where are all of the guys with skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Monkey Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 i only said that about the first video of the karate against 'wing chun'. look at that clip and YOU tell me if you have ever seen wing chun done like that. and to be precise, it's ONE video (the ufc one). post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotokanwarrior Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 http://www.wingtsun.nl/chal-grc.htm TJS go to this site and read the articles Where Art ends, nature begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 http://www.wingtsun.nl/chal-grc.htm TJS go to this site and read the articles Intresting, there are always two sides of the story i guess. all I can say is there are alot more documented challenge matches with various practicioners and styles comming from the Gracie Family Heck I have even seen two Keyboard warriors on this Forum alone talk about how they challenge the gracies and will beat them etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Monkey Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 like i have said, when any particular organisation releases information, it is usually for a purpose that serves their own goals. not saying this is good or bad but maybe we should try to look outside of the organisations for an unbiased point of view. i'm sure you've heard a lot of guys say things then go on to reveal that the source of their claim of superiority was their sifu/sensei/instructor/leader... post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stold Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 B*ullshido is biased eh? That's funny, cause the only place I have ever seen pictures of a match where the WC guy WON was on that website... It wasn't a particularly impressive fight from the story the pictures told, but there were lots of straight horizontal punches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Monkey Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 yeah but that video was released by their organisation. it's like asking mercedes-benz what the best car on the market is... or perhaps we're talking about different videos. the only other vid is of the w.cheung vs e.boztepe. they're both wing guys and there's too much controversy around that video. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDragon Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 MT has become a sport martial art. The MT practitioners who are any good at it are used to fighting all out in a ring. WC is not a sport art. This has two effects: 1) The WC guys who do decide to compete are not going to be seasoned veterans in a ring, 2) The art itself is not taught with ring fighting being a goal, as it is in MT. And before the people in the MT camp start rolling their eyes at the "we have nothing to prove" angle of WC pratitioners, let me just say that it is more than just an excuse. People saying that have a valid point: MT, in it's internationalized sport style way has lost much of it's origins of spirituality and has simply become the most brutal stand up art there is (IMHO). WC as with most kung fu styles has retained it's philosophies of peace and spirituality. So even if this was not the artists personality before they trained in WC, they are trained to think differently about fighting than a MT practitioner is trained. Anyone good enough in the martial aspect of WC to compete on a world class level will also be spiritually enlightened enough to feel that they do not have to prove their abilities in a ring. I am not saying that makes them better or worse, just different, and it means that you will not see the best WC guys preparing for cage matches against whomever thinks they are tougher than them. Personally, I don't like the time spent on the more traditional philosophies (as well as katas, chi, etc.) taught in TMAs, they just aren't for me, that is why I have chosen MT. But I can not pretend that a sport ring is the best place to decide whether sport art A. is better than traditional art B. In a sport ring or cage the sport arts like MT will almost always prevail, but not because they are inherently better at anything other than fighting in that ring. You people are comparing apples to oranges and trying to decide which one makes the best juice by using an orange juicer. Of course the oranges will make better juice using an orange juicer, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the apples just because you didn't get a good glass of apple juice. I fear that after taking a break from this site, I have done a binge post, sorry it was so long. 6 mos. of pent up posts all coming out in one blathering blab. G r e e n D r a g o nFOR THE ABSOLUTE HIGHEST QUALITY SUPPLEMENTS...AT THE ABSOLUTE LOWEST PRICE: https://www.trueprotein.comFor an even lower price, use this discount code: CRA857Courage, above all things, is the first quality of a warrior. - Carl von Clausewitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Monkey Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 well, i think wing chun gets on most people's goat (never understood that saying) is because that it doesn't inherently have any philospohies of peace and spirituality. it was designed to beat old chinese martial arts that had been taught to the ching soldiers. specifically, it was designed to be used in the alleys of the old cities where the old styles had no room to move and where wing chun, with it's straight lines, could dominate. if you look at how it works, you will see that basically, wing chun teaches you how to get to and hit your opponent, usually in the head area. * * * i firmly believe that it does work, especially in it's own environment for which it was designed for. the only problem is that no one holds contests in narrow alleys... as for it's efectiveness outside of it's environment and against anything that isn't traditional chinese, well, i'm sure it can work. you just have to realise that it IS very limited and very narrow sighted. it doesn't help that not many of us train outside of our school. it also isn't good that a lot of places teach that chi sau IS fighting... * * * i've been going to a kick-boxing class for about a year now and as regular readers of my signature will know, i'm getting a sound thrashing BUT i have to say that there are some things from wing chun that the pure kick-boxing guys (most of us there also do another martial art) can't handle. as for muay thai i am thankful i haven't sparred with one yet. i don't think i'm ready. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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