Self defense laws

[bigpopparob2000]

Suppose a larger opponent decides to bully you, shoving you and calling you vulgar names, for whatever reason. You, being the bigger person try to walk away, but you adversary follows you insisting on getting a reaction from you. Finally, you get your fill and say, "Okay, tough guy. Bring it on!" The bully throws the first punch, a wild haymaker, which you easily deflect. Immediately, you deliver few deft strikes, leaving him on the ground with a broken nose and jaw and a black eye. In the end, you end up serving some jail time, paying the jerk's medical bills, and paying punitive damages.

 

A fellow martial artist used the preceding scenario to explain to me the type of legal ramifications you could suffer from even if the fight wasn't neccessarily your fault. As it turns out, the instant you said, "Okay, tough guy. Bring it on!" you immediately forfeited any claim that you actions were in self defense b/c you played a part in provoking the incident.

 

I'm curious as to what other kind of laws and policies exist regarding self defense? How would I go about learning my local laws regarding self defense? It's easy to win the fight but still lose in the long run (in court).

[Warp Spider]

This is a difficult subject to discuss because laws vary and there are people on this forum from all over the world. It would likely be this part that would get you in trouble though, not your words:

Immediately, you deliver few deft strikes, leaving him on the ground with a broken nose and jaw and a black eye.

 

Generally under self-defense laws you can't pummel a person in response to an attack. You can only do moves to prevent yourself from being harmed. If the other guy claims that he took the one swing and then decided against further conflict, there's really not much you can do, unless you can somehow prove that he would have continued attacking. (Which you can't really prove in any way.) To a large extent, it's not about who starts the fight, but more about who ends it.

[WomanInBlack]

That is not self-defense, he was involved in starting the fight in the first place and naturally will face legal repercussions and probably jail.

 

Most martial arts/self-defense training will get you thrown in jail, sued or both.

 

That is because, while self-defense is legal, fighting is not. Police always arrest the winner of a fight because the winner was the "aggressor." If he was not the instigator of the fight, then he is almost always the one who went the farthest out of line and to the most extreme. And that, by legal definition, made him the aggressor even if he did not start it.

 

So what does the law consider self defense? "Using whatever means necessary to quickly end a situation that offers you grievous bodily injury."

 

Fighting is illegal and self-defense is legal.

[Northren Ogre]

I work for Alberta Correctional Services in Canada and most cases of fighting in the street don't always wind up in jail. Even when I managed a nightclub and we had some serious scraps outside the club, most combatants wer'nt charged with assault. Some were simply sent home due to it being a consentual fight(Canadian Criminal Code has a section on consetual fights), or some were given tickets for causing a disturbance in a public place which is just a fine. Just because you get in a little tussle and tap someone in the nose dosen't mean you're going straight to a federal prison.

[Treebranch]

Screw the laws! If I feel someone has full intent to harm me, he's mine.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

All I can speak for is what the law regarding self-defense states in my state.

 

45-3-102. Use of force in defense of person. A person is justified in the use of force or threat to use force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force likely to cause death or serious bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or serious bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

 

I believe most states are similar to this.

[delta1]

Suppose a larger opponent decides to bully you. You try to walk away, but you adversary follows you insisting on getting a reaction from you. Finally, you get your fill and say, "Okay, tough guy. Bring it on!" The bully throws the first punch, you deliver few deft strikes, leaving him on the ground with a broken nose and jaw and a black eye. In the end, you end up serving some jail time, paying the jerk's medical bills, and paying punitive damages.

 

You made two big mistakes, both of which placed you in the role of agressor.

 

First, you not only verbally accepted the challenge, you called him on and raised the level of conflict with your statement. Walking away was a good thing (though it's not allways necessary to do that to stay within the law). Then, if he attacks, you can legally defend yourself, and if he gets hurt as a result then you are still ok with the law- unless...

 

This brings us to your second mistake- you went too far. You are only allowed to defend yourself with enough force to stop the agression and insure your safety. A bully trying to intimidate you, then delivering such a sloppy attack that you easily defeat him, generally doesn't warrant the level of response you took. Even if he started it, once he quits or is incapacitated you can no longer strike. If you do, you become the agressor.

 

If you really want to know about how the law effects you in a fight, I recomend you get "The Law and Martial Arts", a small book by a Judoka who is also a trial lawyer. I believe his name is Carl Brown. He gives a really good view of the legal principles you'll have to deal with.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I agree with just about everything delta1 says...except there are two g's in aggressor bud.

 

Sorry...couldn't resist.

[delta1]

there are two g's in aggressor

 

In civil court, they will apportion guilt and that determines each parties liability for the dammages. Rob got 1 G, the bully got the other.

[Cybren]

Then again, the purpose of a court is to decide the punishments themselves. He was attacked, and, in order to safe guard his well being, he ended his opponants ability to further attack. Really, there's no way to tell the person wouldn't of kept going on.