Religion and the Martial Arts

[Apollo]

Angus,

 

I think she made it pretty clear she didn't want to be called "man." I believe you should respect her wishes, figure of speech or not.

 

 

[Taesujutsudrw]

Hi Apollo,

 

Thank you.

 

Peace,

 

Tae

 

 

[iamrushman]

no matter what....always show respect........you may win a friend and the fight. thus a duel victory.

 

respects with a bow

 

 

 

 

[Tim Greer]

I've actually seen more than a few conversations about martial arts and religion. People are often mislead or confused about what the bible says and what God wants or expects, or whatever you might want to call or describe it as. By many passages, you can easily see why people would interprete things the wrong way. Such as "Turn the other cheeck", people assume means "lay down, let them walk all over you, violence will damn you". However, that's not, as far as I know, how it is. These have other meanings. There are symbolic meanings throughout that shouldn't be taken literally.

 

A Christan posted a question asking about martial arts and if it would somehow affect his after life and whatnot.

 

I simply said something along the lines of: "No one is forcing you to be violent or evil, simply because you study and practice martial arts. If anything, it will give you the knowledge and confidence to control yourself, avoid situations and not only save yourself from harm, but the person that is confronting you. If you're worried about how much you can hurt them, learn martial arts, so you can save yourself from being a victim, yet still have the knowledge and control to stop them without possibly killing them or seriously harming them -- if the situation calls for that or you feel there much be another alternative."

 

"Finally, that my personal belief, is that if someone is attacking an innocent and vulnerable person, is it your _duty_ to help them. If you are untrained, even as a man of God, you should be able to be fine with the idea of fighting against this evil person to stop them." Or something along those lines, give or take...

 

I've seen some subtle to gross confusion about this subject and it doesn't make sense. If someone says it's evil or wrong, they, in my opinion and from what I know, are not properly educated. This is not a practice of evil, it's an act to be healthy, strong, and to be able to protect yourself and others when needed. Anyone can abuse a knowledge or ability and use it for "evil deeds", but that is the person, not the subject -- although some subjects can't be argued.

 

I do believe in God and what the bible teaches. I find a lot of people have the opinion that it's there for oppress people, control people or influence them to conform. I find this funny, since it's teaching you to be free, telling you to live your life the way you want, although asking people be reasonable, fair, honest and good. I don't see any evidence of anything remotely conforming there. No one has or ever had anything to gain from this book, but a better world. I won't go on and on giving reasons or why's and why not's, but I believe it's very simple and obvious, outright obvious. Of course, this is my opinion, view and belief that accounts for my feelings, but they were based on these variables that seemed obvious to me. It's not a good thing to have someone (possibly, I didn't and won't bother to read the page) misquote and preach inaccurate or assumed things based on their personal interpretation.

 

I would agree, however, that some religions (is seems many, to me) are conjured up for a great many reasons, and possibly some to influence people into some controlling nature. It takes time, understanding and thought to read and understand something like the bible. Of course, there's people that think it's a ridiculous thing and all make believe, but I guess out own experiences sometimes help us understand certain aspects more clearly, or not. Also, there are more substantial reasons, but I won't get into it, as I'm not here to preach.. I hope no one interpreted it that way, I know how touchy of a subject it can be.

 

 

[Taesujutsudrw]

In using the Bible to try and prove otherwise.

 

The "turn the other cheek"..doesn't literally mean to do that. Christianity doesn't have the Tumud..and Since Jesus taught the torah and the tumud..the meaning gets lost.

 

"turn the other cheek", is talking about seeking revenge. Not letting someone run other you. It would be morally wrong to aloow anyone to harm. maim, or kill someone, without trying to stop. it.

 

It is like the 6th commanment...Due to bad translations..this commanament shows up in most Bibles, as "you shall not kill",,and foe centuries Christian pacifists have latched onto that commandment to try and get out of all kinds of obligations..even to serving in the Arm forces.

 

However, when translated literally from the Hebrew, it states "You shall not MURDER."

 

That is a marked difference between defending ones life..and taking a life for fun.

 

But many people will read into it what they want. I guess what I am trying to say..is have had heard many reasons for different views of the arts.

 

Anyway, I am Christian, and a martail artist..but I have never had a hard time understanding either...sometimes, especially what we call Fundies, will try anything to prove a point. Please note that in this case Fundies are not referring to poeple who take the Bible literally(although it was never meant to be taken that way), it has to do with the way they think they have all the answers..and their tratment toward others.

 

I am off my soapbox now.

 

Peace,

 

Tae

 

 

[thaiboxerken]

The bible is interpreted by many people to meet their own ends. Christianity, along with many other religions have been used to control people. Today, it's not as predominate but it is still there, Church&State are not totally seperated.

 

 

[Kickbutt]

As well as church and politics, church and school. In Norway, they have a group called "The Christian Peoples Party". I dunno, North America is such a melting-pot of different religions that I just don't believe it should be associated with the above mentioned at all, as it segregates some - I remember in elementary school when we still were saying the Lord's Prayer (they don't anymore), that this poor girl of the Jewish Faith was forced to step out into the hallway...how embarrasing/uncomfortable must that have been for her? I am somewhat spiritual, however I'm of the way of thinking that if I can't see it, then it's not real to me. In my opinion any God, Allah, Buddah etc. would not expect me to go on blind faith - to me that's riduculous - and what about Evolution? That can't be discounted - it just makes more sense to me, that's all. Anyways, this is my humble opinion...Ouss.

 

Lori

 

 

[Tim Greer]

I fail to understand how people believe it must be "blind" faith, since I see things around me everyday, including life itself, that would provide proof. There are things in the bible that do to. Of course, it depends on what bible and what version, since there's so many. Improper preachings by people that don't understand. I can't blame people for not agreeing with me, given that, and the fact that, well, that aren't me. I'm just posting this out of interest, but I think a web page explained this very well (or pretty well), for anyone that's interested in "proof" or this subject.

 

http://www.daveandangel.com/CRN/BibleProofs.html

 

Again, even religions that claim to be a certain type, including Christian, don't just assume it's proper. That's to say, simply because man decides to act on it and commit acts in the name of religion, doesn't mean that their actions are in any way a reflection of the religion or the meaning -- it's the person that's doing it that is using it wrongly. I'm speaking about the aspects of the bible and what it means and says, not what man does, does in it's name or how they abuse it, etc. In fact, that's the only aspect anyone will likely argue against religion, in a manner of saying it's not a positive thing or is only for control, etc. If man does that, that's man's action, there's nothing in the bible that supports that action. I hope that was more clear. Cheers!

 

 

[Kickbutt]

I read as much as I had time for, however would like to pose this question among others... Do you believe we came to exist because God created Adam and Eve? Are you telling me that I should not question religion and just to accept it on blind faith? Why are there only written miracles and prophecies performed by God, Jesus and Moses among others, and none (proven) since - I'm talking about such acts as parting the Red Sea and the like, not simply the miracle of life. Have you witnessed a miracle or talked directly with God or Jesus? This is not sarcastic or snide - I am genuinely asking these questions, as I'd sincerely like to know. Ouss.

 

Lori

 

_________________

 

Life is a long lesson in humility.

 

- James M. Barrie

 

This Message was edited by: Kickbutt on Jun 28, 2001 7:19pm

[Tim Greer]

That's okay, I didn't post anything to convince anyone, just to maybe help reason why some believe and not simply out of blind faith. The fact is, we have no explanation of anything and we will never know how we got here or what means we got here. I don't support Darwin's theory, not because I'm religious, but simply because I find it just as illogical as blind faith, as it were. Of course, that's not to say that if we were a result of evolution, that there wasn't a greater being that created it or started it either.

 

If you are genuinely curious and wonder the why or how, etc. then maybe if you get time to read more of that page, it might give you a better idea of my perspective, or you might find it completely ridiculous and/or unreasonable.

 

I believe there's things in life that humans will never understand or work out. I don't believe there's any rational explanation by any means, especially that is within the scope of human understanding. I also don't believe that the bible is some deperate attempt to rationalize it to make people feel secure about it all either. I want to be clear about that as well. I honestly don't know how it all happened, and it could be symbolic meanings, but for lack of a better reason, or anything anymore logical, I'd say that I do believe that is how it happened, and that it's surely symbolic -- but I don't know.

 

I am not an expert or well versed by any means. I know enough to give me confidence in my belief and no harm will come from peace of mind and good will, as I'm sure most will agree. However, as some mentioned in this thread, it is apparent to all of us, that people to things in the name of religion, which makes people believe there's more to it than goodness -- which is not the case -- that's just the fault of humans. Therefore, since I'm not an expert or that well versed, I won't try and explain anything any further than what I know or believe, and I'll attempt to explain why -- all without trying to defend myself or convince other people to believe what I do. I would assume most people reading this thread would agree that I'm not doing either.

 

I don't expect or tell anyone anything, firstly. Secondly, I wouldn't expect people to believe in something for no reason, or just for the sake of "what if it is true". Obviously if it is, many people are in for an experience that would not be fun. Again, the fact that it's a possibility, is not a good reason to believe anyway, since you'd not really be believing in it at that point, now that I bring that up. Nay, I expect people to have sound reasons to believe in something. Different people have different reasons, people have different comprehensions for things of this nature too. That's not to say that anyone is any less intelligent or whatnot -- I don't mean that kind of lack of comprehension, to be clear.

 

I have no answer, or no immediate answer for why there's no huge miracles in this day and age. I believe that is explained in the bible, if you are seeking an answer for that reason, and I'm not familiar with it enough to give an answer beyond that, without further guessing and I don't want to do that.

 

As for you asking if I've spoken to Jesus and/or God, if I thought I did, I would question my sanity. I don't think those questions are sarcastic, they are valid questions. I think people should have strong, solid foundations for their belief's. There are a great many of questions about so many things in life and things that are written in the bible, that I doubt anyone could have time to answer 1/2 of them, let alone to have answers good enough to convince anyone otherwise. I believe in some things and I have theories about others. It's worth mentioning that I don't have a theory about anything simply to fill in the gaps of things

 

I don't have answers to or don't make sense to me, but it's just my nature to do so about everything. Be it a what I hear or read or think about, and all the possible things it can mean, in what way(s) and why and how. I am a pretty analytical type of person, I question everything. I can only assume, given the right logic applied, that most, if not everyone, if I could properly convey my reasons, would at least agree they were sound and valid, even if they didn't agree with them.

 

Unfortunately, I don't seem to posses the talent to properly explain myself in a manner that would convey my thoughts and feelings that would result in anything very enlightening or profound, other than on the rare occastion... I think I must just like watching myself type. Seriously though, how my thought process functions and what I think and feel and the reasons, are a big part of why I have my belief's and why they are reasonable to me.

 

Therefore, it's difficult to explain and if I don't have an answer to due my own ignorance or lack of knowledge about a subject, then I am pretty useless until I can find a proper way to explain it or rationalize it. Sometimes, topics that come up, such as this, help me form a better written reason, instead of this meaningless rambling. Oops.