Sho-ju Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Old Seek perfection of character Be faithful Endeavor Respect Others Refrain from violent behavior ______________________________________ New Strive for completion of character Protect the way of the truth Foster the spirit of effort Respect the principles of etiquette Guard against impetuous courage. http://www.24fightingchickens.com/mu/dojokun/05_dojokun.html What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makoto Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 How about you forget that load of crap all together and just be a nice guy, until you have to kick butt then show no mercy. Karate is not a religion, and these dojo kun are nothing more than cult behavior. Just train and do not put any moral pressure on yourself that a bunch of guys who did not even follow these rules want you to do. It is all about the money then and now. Because I said so, and I am that damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommarker Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 well, that is one viewpoint. I'm no longer posting here. Adios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho-ju Posted September 17, 2003 Author Share Posted September 17, 2003 How about you forget that load of crap all together and just be a nice guy, until you have to kick butt then show no mercy. Karate is not a religion, and these dojo kun are nothing more than cult behavior. Just train and do not put any moral pressure on yourself that a bunch of guys who did not even follow these rules want you to do. It is all about the money then and now. I've been training 15 years in shotokan. I have never been under any "moral pressure" from any of my teachers. I just wanted to know which translation was better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jussi Häkkinen Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 http://www.24fightingchickens.com/mu/dojokun/index.html Covers pretty well the issue overall. Whether one is better translation than another, is hard to say. I'd suggest you to read the whole article - which you undoubtfully have done, since you posted the link at the first place. Jussi HäkkinenOkinawan Shorin-Ryu Seibukan Karate-Do (Kyan Chotoku lineage)TurkuFinland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makoto Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I do not care how long you have been training. What does that have to do with things? Moral pressure, you must have some, you are asking in a public forum which translation of the dojo kun is better. Why do this if you do not have any interest in the dojo kun. Next, you wanted to know which translation is better. I told you my opinion, both a cult ridden hypocritical rehtoric heaps of crap. They mean nothing. Why not just have one phrase, ie "Do you best". THey all mean the same thing. Funakoshi told Nakayama off for fighting, yet he himself had no problem with war to bring the rest of the world under Japanese control. Dojo Kun, totally * Because I said so, and I am that damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotochem Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Old Seek perfection of character Be faithful Endeavor Respect Others Refrain from violent behavior http://www.24fightingchickens.com/mu/dojokun/05_dojokun.html What do you think? Seek perfection of character ........ Be careful, character perfection is subjective to personal interpretation. I could ba a perfect A-----e with few morals and that would still fit. Be faithful ......... I could be faithful to being the statement above. You may put effort in any endeavor not just karate. Respect...... is earned Refrain from violent behavior........ Martial-Arts are violent behavior !!!! My point is that we take ourselves way too seriously. Karate is not a religion or moral guide. Karate is a SPORT based upon an Asian fighting system. Yes it can be quite effective in a self defense situation, when taught properly. If one needs moral guidance, do not look to karate to find it. Look for a Priest, Rabbi, Dali Lamma, guru or Witch doctor. It is just a basic pledge to recite as part of the club. At my age if I need a dojo kun to guide me morally I would be in serious trouble by now. (As he slowly rolls up sleeves and waits for the flames to begin...... ) Pain is only temporary, the memory of that pain lasts a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotokanwarrior Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 1. character 2. effort 3.edicate 4.sinserity 5. self controll Where Art ends, nature begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho-ju Posted September 18, 2003 Author Share Posted September 18, 2003 I do not care how long you have been training. What does that have to do with things? Moral pressure, you must have some, you are asking in a public forum which translation of the dojo kun is better. Why do this if you do not have any interest in the dojo kun. Next, you wanted to know which translation is better. I told you my opinion, both a cult ridden hypocritical rehtoric heaps of crap. They mean nothing. Why not just have one phrase, ie "Do you best". THey all mean the same thing. Funakoshi told Nakayama off for fighting, yet he himself had no problem with war to bring the rest of the world under Japanese control. Dojo Kun, totally * In all the shotokan clubs I have ever been in no one ever stressed any moral princples. (other then try not using what you have learned here, walk away from a fight) But at the same time no one ever showed as much disrespect to others beliefs as you have by calling them "*." Maybe a little character building is needed? I’m a born again Bible believing fundamentalist Christian, so I have little use for the dojo kun, I do however respect the beliefs of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho-ju Posted September 18, 2003 Author Share Posted September 18, 2003 My point is that we take ourselves way too seriously. Karate is not a religion or moral guide. Karate is a SPORT based upon an Asian fighting system. Yes it can be quite effective in a self defense situation, when taught properly. If one needs moral guidance, do not look to karate to find it. Look for a Priest, Rabbi, Dali Lamma, guru or Witch doctor. It is just a basic pledge to recite as part of the club. At my age if I need a dojo kun to guide me morally I would be in serious trouble by now. (As he slowly rolls up sleeves and waits for the flames to begin...... ) I agree. We should use karate as a martial sport and fighting art. If someone has a moral or spiritual concern then I speak to them about Jesus, but that has nothing to do with karate. Just as football has nothing to do with religion either. I just wanted to know what you thought of a more current translation of the kun, it's just that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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