American Ving Tsun

[Drunken Monkey]

once again.

 

you have misunderstood my post.

 

back to the romanisation.

 

wing chun was developed in the canton region of china and later in hk. in this region, there are only two languages/dialects usedl cantonese and mandarin.

 

in mandarin, wing chun is pronounced yong chwoon.

 

in cantonese there is only one way of sounding it so really there shouldn't be any other way of spelling it. if you look at who uses the different spellings, it is only the people from yip man's school who chose to spell it differently. all of the other lines (hung suen, pan nam, yuen kay shan etc etc) use "wing chun". if any differences occir, don;t you think it should be from people who are not part of the yip man, clan?

 

as for leung ting, maybe he is a bad example to use. too many stories about him and his organisation.

[Lee]

I don't think spelling really matters. By Romanization I believe he meant putting it into English letters, which is hard when doing it phonetically from another language into one that's very loose. IE. Tai Chi & Taiji, Read and Reed, Medina & Mahdhinah, Fish & Ghoti (yes, this is a possible phonetic spelling of fish in English). In a very broad sense it doesn't matter the spelling as the principles taught will be the same. But when you look at every lineage of Wing Chun/Ving Tsun/Whatever as it is then there are things which make each distinctive.

[pvwingchun]

Lee

 

Thanks for clarifying my point.

[sano]

because anything ed parker or any american got their hands on at that time always missed it up big time.

[Vyvial]

American Ving Tsun is just a public name. No meaning, my Sifu's school is named American Kung Fu Academy or just Moy Yat Kung Fu Richmond, VA. We are Austin Moy Tung Ving Tsun Kung Fu. NO we do not mix anything or teach a modified system as the American Ving Tsun site clearly states.

 

Ving Tsun was Yip Man's preferred spelling of "Wing Chun" and yes it is different. Most schools who use VT spelling teach unmodified Yip Man Ving Tsun. We have different positions and different theories and very different energy than most WC schools in the US. All Ving Tsun schools are Wing Chun but not all WC schools are VT.

 

I hope this helps.

[Drunken Monkey]

but then yip man was famous for teaching all of his students different things in different ways...

[Vyvial]

This is just my opinion but...

 

That's a major exaggeration, Yip Man's teaching changed as he got older (like most teachers) but to say that he taught most of his students differently is pretty unbelievable. Yip Man is even more famous for not teaching and not touching his students' hands. When WSL was in charge of teaching at Yip Man's school, would he do that? When Moy Yat was teaching his sidai, would he do that?

 

Yip Man, when he taught, treated people as individuals meaning people got the kung fu they needed when they were ready. He also never wanted everyone's forms and everyone's positions to mimic him, which could be why he didn't play his kung fu in front of his students. So there are many different positions and many different angles taught by Yip Man's students. He left the understanding up to them, many didn't get it, and some did.

 

Also in kung fu tradition, once a student took on the title Sifu they could no longer learn from their own sifu, that is how it was in the early stages of Yip Man's school. Many of his early students became Sifus at an early age, therefore they had to fill in the gaps and finish their own kung fu or get it finished by their kung fu brothers. So there is another reason for all the differences. This wasn't so much the case for the second and third generation students of Yip Man.

 

Then you look at all the students claiming to be grandmasters just because they happened to learn from Yip Man. Yip Man gave his blessing to very few people to become Sifus and had few Disciples (indoor students). So that means you have a lot of people who are not really qualified to pass on Ving Tsun claiming to have learned a different "secret" or more "effective" style in order to make a name for themselves and to set them apart from all their peers.

 

If you look at the guys who really spent the time with Yip Man (10...15....17 years), you will see much more similar kung fu. Then look at the guys who teach very different styles of Yip Man WC or VT it's much more probable that they didn't really learn enough and had to fill in the gaps with other stuff, be it tai chi, boxing, judo whatever, they can't really say that so they claim to have learned differently then everyone else. Almost everyone claims that they were the closest and best student of Yip Man it's good for business.

 

Look in your own school, what if your Sifu died and was very, very famous... Ok, now look at all your fellow students, imagine most of them now claiming to be masters and trying to look like they finished the system. They would have some very different ideas... then you have the guys at your school who can very well make that claim, to have had everything passed down from the sifu.

 

So when we (as in my school) claim unmodified Yip man Ving Tsun, we mean that we teach exactly what Yip Man taught to Moy Yat which is exactly what Moy Yat taught to Moy Tung and and Moy Tung taught to us and what I teach to my students. All adaptation is on a personal level, we teach the details that are passed down and leave them open to interpretation by the individual. A VT sifu should be a guide through the VT system and not just pass on their own personal use of it. That is our meaning and goal in VT, to pass on the true system unchanged by our own ideas as it has been passed down by those who spent the time and paid their dues.

 

...just a few thoughts.

[Drunken Monkey]

i wasn't really talking about the hk students.

 

if you trace his entire teaching history, what he taught in futshan is different to what he taught in hk.

 

and yes during the later stages of his life, he didn't even teach the students in his school, instead leaving it in the very capable hands of wong and later, kan (just out of interest, who else took charge of the teaching?)

 

my point is, up to a point, the way and what he taught was different because yip man himself was refining the system.

 

anyway, i'm a bit lost as to how we ended up talking about this...

[Vyvial]

this is probably why

but then yip man was famous for teaching all of his students different things in different ways...

 

This wasn't totally directed at you, since the thread is about my school, and ed parker, I thought that I would give some info on our method of Ving Tsun.

 

There were a few students from Yongan before Hong Kong but I don't know anything about them. Anyone have any info?

 

Drunken Monkey and pvwingchun: are you guys not basically making the same point? It's a good point but your kinda talking around each other.

 

Many sihings were directed to train individuals in Yip Man's school, a few examples: Mak Po Sing started Moy Yat's training and Moy Yat taught Yip Chun and Yip Ching.

 

I think, not that it matters for much, that the Refinement of the system was mostly just to organize it. i.e.: the dummy set was never an official form, and was always changing. It never became a "form" until his students were looking for ways to remember it and pass it on. Another example, it would take around ten years for Yip Man to pass tsui ma (push horse) uprooting stepping in Chi Sau and Gor Sau so he and Moy Yat organized it into a Chi Sau training process for Moy Yat's school in HK.

 

There were some things that were "refinements" but I couldn't say for sure, any ideas? Interesting subject.

[stonecrusher69]

I just like to add my 2 cents in.How you pronounce Wing Chun in Engish is not pronounce the same in Chinese.I have a few friends from China and if you say wing chun to them they don't know what your talking about.They pronounce Wing Chun Young Chung.Anyway,not all styles of Wing Chun have 3 hand forms.The system I studied has 4 hand sets and many two man forms.6 dummy forms which Yip Man style only has one,but yes,I would agree Wing Chun is a lot easier to learn and apply then most systems but just has hard to master.