American Ving Tsun

[Sho-ju]

Is it a home made, mix and match system? It sounds like an Ed Parker job...

[paolung]

what do you mean, "sounds like an Ed Parker job..."?

[cross]

dunno about american ving tsun, but the ving tsun i have heard about is said to be "one of the most progressive self defence systems today". Its very similar to wing chun.

[delta1]

Is it a home made, mix and match system? It sounds like an Ed Parker job...

 

What can you say to ignorance... ?

 

(The rest of this post is deleted, by delta1, in deference to the rest of the forum.)

[delta1]

cross, Ving Tsun is just a different westernized spelling of Wing Chun. There are several different lineages, each with its own differences. But all are similar, and if the practitioners I've come across are any indication, it's a good style. I'll let the VT guys tell you which lineage is the one true VT !

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

[Drunken Monkey]

they like to use different spellings to differentiate them from their brothers.

 

all wing chun is wing chun.

 

some may tell you that not all wing chun is the same but at the end of the day, it isn't the hardest thing to LEARN. after all, there are only three hand forms, two weapons forms and the dummy form.

 

what you do in the time between classes is what makes you good. don't get caught in the "which one is better?" arguments.

[Sho-ju]

Thanks Drunken Monkey. The only Wing Chun I have seen was done by Sifu Philp Redmond and his stuff is awsome.

[pvwingchun]

they like to use different spellings to differentiate them from their brothers.

Not quite true, it is the Romanization of the characters of the Chinese language that cause the differences.

all wing chun is wing chun.

Not quite true again. There is some really bad Wing Chun out there and what some people call Wing Chun is not Wing Chun. There is some very bad Wing Chun and Wing chun instructors out there. The lineages very in the forms and how they are applied, yes good Wing Chun is Wing Chun, because when you really take a hard look at it the principles remain the same. But not all lineages are the same, there are some very striking differences out there. Many believe this is due to Ip Man's style of teaching, not every student was taught the same way or the same thing.

 

 

it isn't the hardest thing to LEARN. after all, there are only three hand forms, two weapons forms and the dummy form.

This does not make the system easy to learn. There is so much in those three empty hand forms that it takes years to learn the nuances of them. The mechanics of the system yes are easy to learn but the details are where the system sets itself apart form other martial arts. One can dedicate a lifetime of study just to the Siu Lim Tao alone the first hand form. I discover new things about it every day.

 

Sifu Phillip Redmond is of the Willaim Cheung lineage and they train in Traditional Wing Chun which looks very different from the Wing Chun most people see as coming from Ip Man. And yes it is very good.

[Drunken Monkey]

not really...

 

the generally accepted way of spelling it is "wing chun".

 

some of the sifus out there added their own "tag" (classical, traditional, authentic etc etc) to diffrentiate their school.

 

the other spellings are just another way of them to separate their schools.

 

it isn't about different romanisations.

 

in cantonese, wing chun is just wing chun. there are two different ways of writing the characters (which a different line from BEFORE yip man uses) but it is still pronounced the same. it does not have a different romanisation.

 

when i said all wing chun is wing chun i WAS talking about the principles. if you take away the forms and look at how the different lines and schools of wing chun do things, you will see that the core is the same.

 

whether it is good or bad is almost irrelevant because whether you are good or not is up to you. even the bad teachers out there teach the forms correctly (by which i mean they teach you how to "perform" the forms).

 

how you apply the principles to the forms/moves is up to you. even a good teacher cannot tell you how a move will work for you.

 

i say it is easy to learn because it is EASY to learn. you can easily learn to do the forms and weapons in about six months. but this does not mean you are good. knowing is a totally different thing to being good. being good means knowing what every detail is.

 

you seem to have misunderstood what my post said...

 

i was pointing out that knowing how to do the forms mean nothing without learning the details.

[pvwingchun]

The characters do not translate directly into English so there is no set way of spelling, and depending on the dialect the words take on very different sounds therefore the different spelling and yes some of the lineages have chosen to use the different spellings. Grandmaster Leung Ting chose his spelling because he did not like WC which stands for water closet or "bathroom". Those are his words not mine.

 

Bad instructors do not turn out good students and they don't all teach the forms the proper way, they have added their own intrepretations into it and have changed the core to fit what they beleive to be true. If you do not know and understand the principles then you cannot pass on good Wing Chun. Yes whether you are good or bad is up to you but a good instructor is more likely to turn out good students than a bad one. Wing Chun is in everyone it is the job of a good instructor to bring it out if that is what the person wants.

 

Wing Chun is not easy to learn just learning the forms does not mean you have learned Wing Chun. Wing Chun is not a form or technique based art it is principle based. Therefore just learning the forms does not make a Wing Chun man even if you learn the details. And yes I mentioned details in my first post but it is more than details. I have people now who think they have learned the Siu Lim Tau and they don't have a clue, yes they know the moves but they have not learned the SLT.