kempocos Posted September 8, 2003 Posted September 8, 2003 I would like to state most 5- 10TH dans never tested for the rank and had it handed to them. I get disgusted when I see 7th - 10th who promoted themselves by creating there own style of stolen techniques, paid and joined a "federation" and jumped 5 rank leveles, or my fav " the students promoted them. In alot of system it would close to 20 years to go from 1ST DAN - 6TH DAN, yet there are hundreds of 9th - 10th dans who made the rise from 1st kyu to 9th-10th degree in 20 years I find that very hard to accept. I do not want to get into a children program vs adult program that is already a thread please see my comments there. I am refering to adults which means you recieved you 1st dan earlist 16. The fact is even if you were a 1st dan by 16 , 6th by 36 how can you jump to 9th in less than 5 years. The only way is to LIE, BE GIVEN, NOT EARNED. Who is prompting the 10th dans to that rank. A person can not promote someone to the same rank as they are a 1st can not promote a person to 1st, a 2nd can not promote to 2nd, and so on. I would like to see all your thoughts on this. As always IMHO "If you don't want to get hit while sparring , join the cardio class"
Practise is the Key Posted September 8, 2003 Posted September 8, 2003 Well, Its not the age its the skills is important: They probabely go every lessons to achive those 9th and 1oth dan and work hard for it... I am still training however, having dabbled in Shotokan and Shotokai Karate. I am please to report that Kenshukai is one of the strongest and most disciplined styles ( i did not write this)
Guest Posted September 8, 2003 Posted September 8, 2003 If you cannot promote someone to the same rank as you are, then how are there 10th dans? By the same reasoning, you could also say that there cannot be any ranks, because a tenth dan could promote his students to 9th. These students could never promote anyone beyond 8th, then those 8th dans can't promote beyond 7th ... and so on until we have a world full of 10th kyus.
kempocos Posted September 8, 2003 Author Posted September 8, 2003 SMR you are starting to see my point a 10th can promote to 8th or 9th dan. Why can't the 9TH dan request the 10TH dan his teacher test his student when the time comes. Becuase his EGO would have to admit thier is someone of higher rank. So how can there be so many 10th dans , answer is that they break off of thier instructor , create a name and declare themselves the head of a new style teaching the same techniques his teacher taught him. What is wrong with not getting higher than 8th dan and spending 30 + years getting there. The only answer is EGO. Your ranking really has little to do with how good your techniques are. Only pratice effects your techniques. IF two 4th dans train together, have equal abilities they split wins in sparring. clearly are equal. One tests and is awarded 5th and the other choses not to stays a 4th. Does the 5th suddenly have better techniques than the 4th, NO. "If you don't want to get hit while sparring , join the cardio class"
Sauzin Posted September 8, 2003 Posted September 8, 2003 Personally I think the emphasis on ranks above 5th is ridiculous. Why should anyone desire such a rank? When did 4th and 5th dan become inadequate to do run a dojo, teach, be an authority on a subject, or give seminars? That is the problem I have with all these ranks that are being obtained. It is removing value from legitimate t ranks that denote teaching ability and certain levels of mastery. Now days in the states, if you don’t have a 9th or 10th degree then no one is listening to you. I don’t think rank would even matter if people would take time to evaluate an instructor based on what he is teaching and where he got it rather then his rank. The only two things that stand between an effective art and one that isn't are a tradition to draw knowledge from and the mind to practice it.
Guest Posted September 8, 2003 Posted September 8, 2003 Your ranking really has little to do with how good your techniques are. To some degree, this should be true. If you do not agree with this statement, then you would also agree that there are no high dan rankings because as you grow older, your technique worsens. It's a fact of life. Now would you demote your instructor because he is too old and feeble to perform the techniques he teaches? Your rank should be an award given for your passing a test or satisfying some other requirement when you were asked to do it. Once it is given to you, no one has the right to take it away. Think about what would happen if your high school had the right to repo your diploma if you couldn't pass your exams later in life.
kempocos Posted September 8, 2003 Author Posted September 8, 2003 SMR - "If you do not agree with this statement, then you would also agree that there are no high dan rankings because as you grow older, your technique worsens. It's a fact of life." Very good point. SMR - "Now would you demote your instructor because he is too old and feeble to perform the techniques he teaches? Your rank should be an award given for your passing a test or satisfying some other requirement when you were asked to do it. Once it is given to you, no one has the right to take it away" This is another good point, No the rank was earned not self granted, or given by a group who does not have the authority such as the instructors students. I have seen where the students were so impressed the prompted thier instructor from 4 th dan to 9 th dan because they really liked him, and to this day the guy still refers to himself a a 9th dan. "If you don't want to get hit while sparring , join the cardio class"
superleeds Posted September 8, 2003 Posted September 8, 2003 very few people has been given the rank 10th dan by the japanese karate federation/association what have u. those are the only valid 10th dan karatekas in my book. Read a book!
superleeds Posted September 8, 2003 Posted September 8, 2003 Not to piss anyone off,but I think that this is more of a problem in the U.S then say Europe. How students can promote their sensei is beyond me. Read a book!
gheinisch Posted September 9, 2003 Posted September 9, 2003 My Hanshi is a 9th dan who has been in the martial arts for close to 38 years. He will never be a 10th dan because his Sensei (John Pachivas) passed away on valentines day 2000. Hanshi John Pachivas would be the only one that could promote him to 10th dan. I don't think he will ever award that rank to himself, after all as our Hanshi says "ranks are earned, never given". "If your hand goes forth withhold your temper""If your temper goes forth withold your hand"-Gichin Funakoshi
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