What is a karate "master"?

[Sasori_Te]

Thank you smr. I knew that there were other examples. I just couldn't think of any more examples from classical/traditional styles off the top of my head.

[Hohan-1]

Sensei Koeppel was a STUDENT of my Sensei, Ronald Lindsey. Sensei Lindsey is an 8th Dan, so how can his former student be a higher rank than him?He IS NOT a legitimate 10th Dan, and NO gaijin is!!! Get it straight. Phil's seniors under Soken and Kise were Lindsey and Coffman. Both are 7th or 8th Dan, depending on which organization you want to use. Yuichi Kuda made Sensei Lindsey the head of Matsumura Shorin Kenpo, but Lindsey left him due to Kuda awarding rank for money, not skill or time in grade. He was also President of the World Kenshinkan Org., but left because of similar problems with Kise's association.

 

Now if you train under Koeppel and he told you he is a legit Soke then you've been duped. Sorry. Check out my signature. I am a student of the Hakutsurukan. That means "house of the White Crane". From that you should use your keen powers of observation and understand that I am a real Seito Machimura Suidi stylist. My sensei probably trained your sensei or your sensei's sensei. Get a clue. Sorry for the lack of diplomacy and I don't doubt that Sesnei Phil is good, but he is no 10th Dan. Get REAL. Use your head, don't let others use it for you. Read his bio and see Lindsey's name mentioned and know that you now know the truth.

 

What the hell is this Shuri RYU? That is not a real style! Trias was a joke and a money making martialist. There is only one Shuri TE. That is the forerunner of Shorin. What I do is Shuri Te. What Shuri Ryu guys do is Shuri FAKE. Please, please, please get it all straight. D-izzzz-AMNNNNN!!! You kids are clueless and ridiculous. AMERICAN GMs? Only of FREEMASONRY... You don't even understand the structure of what it is you study. No wonder people laugh at karate-ka.

[Guest]

If you would read my post, I stated very clearly that Phillip Koeppel is 8th dan, promoted by Yuichi Kuda. I understand and respect your militant, brain washed, yes-master point of view. But please, for your sake, read the posts before you respond to them. You sound like a bafoon, pounding your chest and roaring like something that strayed too far from the planet of the apes. Read what you just said. "What the hell is this Shuri RYU? That is not a real style!" What makes a "real style?" In order for a style to qualify as a "real" style, does it need your approval? If that were the criterion of a style, then you've just made a lot of friends here. Would you care to point out to all of us here who is studying fake styles? You've made it very clear that your instructor is the end-all be-all samurai super sensei, so please, fly him out here so that he and Mr Koeppel can discuss these matters. In my opinion, your post displays a severe lack in character, not to mention racism. "AMERICAN GMs? Only of FREEMASONRY." Perhaps you forget that it's been some time since the war, and there is a fairly sizeable group of people whom have been studying karate just as long as the guys over in Japan. For you to say that an American cannot be a "Grand master" is ridiculous. Somebody's got you in their pocket right where they want you. So before YOU go pointing your finger and pounding your chest, use YOUR head and figure things out for yourself, instead of becoming another mindless peon in the karate political hierarchy. I do understand the structure of what it is that YOU study. That is why I reject it. I do karate because I like karate, not because I needed to be indoctrinated into some micro society to feel important. I'm important in the real world. Edited August 30, 2003 by Anonymous

[Sasori_Te]

Hohan, I'm not sure what you consider to be real, but what you are discussing is more dojo politics. Kuda and Kise both are in your lineage somewhere. None of the GMs that I know and respect would sell rank for money. They display the proper respect for all styles and this is what makes them worthy of being a GM to me, the proper attitude combined with a mountain of knowledge. Asians no longer have a corner on the martial arts market. They are revered and respected for being the foundation, but remember a foundation is not a house, only a part. I heard Master Fumio Demura say that the best karate going on in the world today is happening in the United States and other countries outside China Okinawa, Japan and Korea. I've also trained long enough to know that people that are as sure of themselves as you seem to be are the ones that are truly clueless to the ways of the art you study.

 

Remember, every tradition has a beginning.

Edited August 30, 2003 by Sasori_Te

[alanseijas]

You kids are clueless and ridiculous. No wonder people laugh at karate-ka.

 

I am no kid, I am neither clueless nor ridiculous, AND WHO IS LAUGHING AT ME?!!!!!!! YOU?

[Sasori_Te]

I would have to agree with smr here. The ferocity in Hohans statement suggests to me a lack of confidence in his own system to have to resort to belittling other styles and their respective GM's. It reminds me of a child on the playground saying "my dad can kick your dad's butt." And Hohan, I'm not calling you a child. I'm saying you're earlier statement came off as child like. Sorry everyone. This has nothing to do with the original post what-so-ever. Everyone else, I think we can probably ignore further comment and get back to the topic at hand.

[mArTiAl_GiRl]

Let me tell you my opinion. A master is someone who has practiced martial arts for many, many years and who has knowledge about meditation too, not that he only wears his black belt and wins all competitons, that's not a true master. A master doesn't sell knowledge like in a shopping mall and the disciple cannot buy it.

 

You become a master when you are the same old as the old chinese and japanese masters, who have experiences. And you can call someone a "Sensei" when he/she has 3rd dan, at 5th dan, he/she is on the way to become a master, a Sensei.. a true Sensei.

[Hohan-1]

You want me to ask Sensei Lindsey to fly out to do a seminar for Koeppel Sensei? I mean there would be NOTHING that your sensei could teach him as even his forms are from videotapes that Koeppel recorded of his Sensei (Ronald Lindsey doing the kata). We talked about this at training today and we all had a good laugh. I know you said 8th dan, but Koeppel's website states that he is a 10th DAN! Then it goes on to list several other AMERICAN 10th dans under the same system. RIDICULOUS. That is impossible there are NO American Sensei who are recognized 10th Dans of a real Japanese or Okinawan Ryu. Kuda did not give him his Menkyo Kaiden. That is the fact. This is why there is so much division and politics associated with Matsumura Seito. So many people have claimed to be this or that rank, to have trained with Soken, Kise or Kuda and none of them spent anytime training, just brown-nosing and paying for rank. That's the truth. C'mon Koeppel knows the truth. Ask him if he agrees with your assumptions. This is not a case of "my sensei is better than yours". It's just reality. Koeppel is decent, but Koeppel knows what's up.

 

Nishihira, Kise, Coffman, Lindsey, Sandoval, Gringras and a couple of others are real Matsumura karate-ka. Karate is and has been their lives for over 35 years. They were senior to Koeppel, Chandler, Ohl and others. There are others senior to Lindsey, Sandoval and Coffman, but they stopped training and decided to get back into it after a 20 year hiatus or more. What they do now, looks horrible- IMO.

 

Siiiigh. Sorry to burst your bubble(s), but it is all so sad and true. Yeah the truth can suck. You would think that these so-called American 10th Dan understood the structure of Okinawan and Japanese karate, but alas they understand only one thing.....$$$$$$$! Oh AND the naivete and ignorance of the American people when it comes to legit martial arts. Yeah I guess the NHB folks have every right to guffaw and giggle mightily when karate-ka claim to know what it is they think they know.

 

I can be very diplomatic, but when I see blind people trying to cross the street I helps 'dem out. It is my duty as a true yudansha and human being. No one manipulates me. Au contraire mon frer. I am an educated professional, with decades of real MAs training, both stateside and in Asia. I'm 35 years old. I came back to the states in '88 and until I started training with Master Lindsey, didn't see anything even semi-real-- for over 12 years! Well, I take that back Caique JJ and GJJ are good systems in their own right. Other than that--NADA.

 

Be smart people. Don't be fooled by what your senseis tell you. Research this stuff and if I'm wrong then I swear to God I'll take it all back. Prove me wrong. Not what you want reality to be, but the truth. Empirical evidence. There are no legit American 10th Dans, and Shuri Ryu is neither Japanese nor Okinawan karate. Maybe one day (the Soke part) but right now, nope. PERIOD.

[Guest]

Oh gosh. I appologize profusely! I didn't realize that you were the utmost authority on martial arts. Well, master, please educate me!

 

Please!

 

It is just as easy for you to point fingers at Mr. Koeppel (btw ... Koeppel is not my sensei, nor has ever been ... I'm arguing on principle here) and call him a fake, than it is for me to point fingers at your instructor and call him one. Lets face it, from this vantage it's his word against yours. I find it rather difficult, judging the enormous size of Koeppel's organization in america and abroad, that this infomation never got out. He lives a very public life, as far as karate politics goes, and information as incriminating as this wouldn't go unnoticed. Do you really think you are the enlightened ones? C'mon. Just about every instructor I've ever met seems to have "the dirt" on everyone else. Your not the first enlightened one. And just to be fair, how did your instructor receive his rank? Was it given to him by Yuichi Kuda? If so, then your reasoning states that he also bought his rank, and so did anyone else who received rank from him as well. Perhaps there is just a little jealousy or envy involved here? Lets forget about who trained Koeppel for now, because it won't be sufficeint for you anyway. Look at it this way. Koeppel trained with *somebody,* then went on to create a large MA organization, with members all over the states and europe. That's no small accomplishment. I'm not trying to belittle your guy, but the viscousness of your attack clearly indicated that the mere mention of Mr. Koeppels name struck a nerve with you.

 

And one more thing. You said that because the translation of your art's name means "House of the White Crane," that means that it is the true teaching of Hohan Soken. Could I name my art "The teachings of Soken Sensei?" You can't deny that came from Hohan Soken, it's right there in the name! Now use your powers of observation and figure that one out. Your art probably is close to Soken's, but just because the name says it is doesn't mean squat.

 

Now, I'm done arguing with you about this. I just reread everything that was said, and I'm ashamed that I've stooped down to your level with such little provocation. And besides, I'll never convince you anyway.

[Hohan-1]

Do you even know who Sensei Lindsey is? I sure as h e ll know who Koeppel is. I don't think he is fake, it's just that somehow he is the same rank (or higher) than his seniors, and that isn't logical.

 

Lindsey didn't buy shite! He was the PRESIDENT of Kuda's Matsumura Kenpo Association. This isn't one person's word against another. This is the truth versus distorted reality. Kuda promoted Lindsey based on his dedication to and knowledge of Matsumura Seito. In fact he once said and this is a quote: "only Sensei's Lindsey, Tatum and Ohl are authorized to transfer the knowledge of my karate in America". The statement you mentioned earlier about better karate being stateside was directed towards these three senior students of Kuda. BTW one of Sensei Lindsey's students, this SHURI RYU "stylist", Phil Koeppel, was introduced to Yuichi Kuda through Lindsey. He'll tell you that Trias' karate is crap. That's why he doesn't claim it anymore. The rest is history!

 

Koeppel's "BB" was from Shuri Ryu originally. Yep.

 

Sensei Lindsey had been training with Okinawans (exclusively) since he was stationed on Okinawa in the 60s and 70s. He never stopped his learning and teaching (for meager amounts) and is going stronger than ever. Koeppel is neither a true 8th Dan, 9th Dan nor 10th Dan. Who did he train with and for how long? He trained with Lindsey sporadically and with Kuda, Nishihira, Kise or Soken NEVER. Not for any significant length of time, at least. It's good that he is making MSSR more popular, but what he does is quite flawed.

 

You didn't know. Now you do. I'll leave it at that b/c it's better if people THINK they know the truth. It's better for those of us who really do, and train with reality, tradition, integrity and reverence in mind. Keep up the gullibility.

 

Oh and the Hakutsurukan is Sensei Lindsey's dojo. I thought you would realize that another MS guy was on here, and your senior at that. That way you wouldn't put your foot in your mouth. It didn't work. Later Sherlock!