Bo spinning techniques

[starwave]

Hi all,

 

I've been reading this forum for some months now and really enjoyed all the useful info I found. I've been practicing Shotokan for the last two years and I'd like to learn some weapon techniques.

 

Because of all the posts here I decided to start with a Bo. I've bought one and learned two basic spinning techniques, forward spinning with both hands from some korean site about taekwondo, and the figure eight from http://www.blanketfort.com/juggling/staff.html. (just too easy).

 

My question is, where can I find info about the 'really cool' spinning techniques? Anyone know another good site or book? (or a post on this forum i've missed) No videotapes please

 

I found working with a bo to be very good for my coördination and it's also a useful weapon (I guess when someone is attacked it's easier to find a stick than a sword ) So i'd really like to learn the basics.

[Sauzin]

Oh man, so I don't know how much help I can be with pointing in the right direction but here's a few words of advice.

 

First "spinning" is not as cool as you might think. I mean sure, it looks cool, but you would not believe how easy it is for someone to disarm you when you do that. In fact an unarmed man could probably stick his arm out and let you hit it and you would likely disarm yourself. He might get a nasty bruise but there really is nothing behind most spins.

 

A bo is not a baton! A martial artist should not look like a lead in a marching band!

 

There are a lot of directions I would go if you’re interested in learning how a bo really works. Go down to the local library and look up "quarter staff". You'll see a bunch of guy will long sticks holding them like spears or really long swords. This actually works. You might try playing around with it as though it were a really long sword. Just make sure no one is near by.

 

If you’re looking for a more traditional oriental source, I personally believe that kobudo has the most refined bo techniques. Do a search on "Kobudo" in an internet search engine. You'll find a bunch of Okinawans holding a bo really weird along the outside of their forearms. Read up on them, these guys know their bo. I can personally vouch for anyone who has learned from Seikichi Odo or Oyata.

 

If you would like to e-mail or post any questions I would be happy to answer. Good luck.

 

Paul Holsinger

[Bdaze]

i agree with Sauzin. Spins are not something you need. though they look cool, they're pretty useless, unless you can perfect them to the point where if someone got in the way it would damage them severly and not stop the bo from spinning it's course.

 

but, if you're intent on learning how to spin a Bo check this page out, they have detailed instructions on how to work with a Fire Staff (the same techniques can be applied to a regualir Bo)

 

http://www.homeofpoi.com/

 

go to the Free Lessons section and then the Staff section.

 

this site also has techniques for Poi (chains with fire on the ends) which can easily be applied to Rope Dart or Meteor Hammers

[ShotokanKen]

thanks for that info

[SPop6]

Spinning is very very simple to do. Two handed is harder than one handed spinning though... don't know why...

[SBN Doug]

I'm not really sure where you guys got the idea that the spin is supposed to be used as a strike, but that is incorrect. It is used, similarly to rebounding and spinning jool bong (nunchucks), as a tactic to throw off the defender so they don't know from where the strike is coming.

 

Another source for a book is here.

 

http://www.kuksoolwon.com/Merchant/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WKSA_01&Product_Code=KS_HB-V05&Category_Code=WKSA_HANDBOOKS

 

However, I'm always for learning everything possible from a live person, rather than a book.

[Sauzin]

I'm not really sure where you guys got the idea that the spin is supposed to be used as a strike, but that is incorrect. It is used, similarly to rebounding and spinning jool bong (nunchucks), as a tactic to throw off the defender so they don't know from where the strike is coming.

 

So, I see what you're saying here but I have to disagree with its practicality. Spinning a bo leaves you prone for a disarm. An opponent need not worry about what direction your bo may be swinging next if he simply extends his stick (or arm) and hits you. Most spins do not have the grip behind them to parry a strike out of the way. In most cases the bo goes flying out of the hands of the spinner when it makes contact with anything.

 

I mean take a look at the hand position required for a fast spin. It requires either two hands placed within a foot apart or worse, one hand off the bo. These grips do not maintain good control of the weapon, they offer no protection from a disarm, and they limit your ability to perform other motions without having to readjust their position. It just doesn’t make sense to do this.

 

From what I know of bo on bo combat, it’s not about swirling your stick around to confuse your opponent. It is about a quick and decisive strike from a good position. These are very difficult to read. With less then a fraction of a second a strike can be brought high, low, or reversed to come from another direction. Under arm reverse strikes are great for faking an opponent out. They see you moving one way, then opps sorry it’s coming from the other direction. No spinning needed.

 

Now in some kata there are rotating motions that are used to trap, throw, and disarm an opponent. They aren’t spins per say, but they definitely circle around. See Choun no kun or Shihonuke. This is a whole different ball game, but we aren’t talking twirling here.

 

With nunchaku we have a slightly different story. I would still say that just spinning them around is pointless and dangerous. There are cases where a single or double spin is usefull. Many strikes include a quick spin right before the swing. This allows them to gain a large amount of momentum and readies their trajectory for the strike. Spins can also be used to change trajectories or allow the weapons momentum to die out in a safe area and be redirected. Many people just spin these things around though, thinking they will confuse their opponent and look cool. All someone has to do is put something out there for them to hit and the weapon will either wrap around it and become useless or hit the object and bounce back at the person spinning it. I can’t tell you how many times I hit myself this way before I found someone who knew what they were doing and they showed me why it didn’t work.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I certainly understand that there are many different ways to use a bo. All I am referring to is what I have seen from my own experience. As a general rule, spinning a bo is a bad idea.

[SBN Doug]

O.k., I understand you're point, but your philosophy is slightly flawed.

 

Spinning, in practice, builds up extremely strong grip. My forearms are a perfect example. It takes training, just like with everything else, to get to the point where you will not get disarmed by simply bumping into an outstretched arm. However, if you never practice spinning, and don't build up your grip strength, then yes it could be easy to disarm the practitioner, even when all you use are the "quick and decisive strikes".

 

Second, the spinning does not occur when you're next to the combatant, as it appears you are describing. You perform any spinning when you are outside the range of attack. Once you step into the engagement area, the spinning stops and the quick movements you mentioned begin. This doesn't mean you HAVE to spin before engaging, it is just a method to try and find an opening before attacking. We do pre-arranged staff sparring before ever doing free sparring, and the spinning is always when you have range on the opponent.

[Ben]

i dont spin bo, but i'm pretty handy with firestaffs, both long and short. for general spinning techniques, its very hard to find complex ones. learn all the ones at homeofpoi - that chick is great with a staff, and build speed on them. again a poor technique will not work. make up your own style routines, link things together. just experiment.

 

mmmm... firestaffing after TKD tonight me thinks

[Sauzin]

Spinning for training and while you’re outside of the opponent’s range is far from the worst you could be doing with that.

 

I know what you mean regarding the forearm strengthening. I personally I like to obtain this through practicing techniques with a heavy oak bo that work while your engaged with an opponent rather then practicing techniques that don’t, but in the end you end up with strengthened arms, one way or the other.

 

Twirling while outside your opponents range is fine, I guess it gets the blood flowing. One could argue that the repetitive rhythm of the spin sets you up for being timed by your opponent, but this is really a preference thing. People say the same thing about guys who bounce around or wave their hands in the ring, yet I’ve seen few who could actually use this against the practitioner. I prefer not to do this though. I would rather that my opponent see nothing but the end of my stick, that way he knows he has to get past that before any game play starts. My slightly flawed philosophy is: “Let him try.”