"90% of fights end up on the ground"?

[lister14]

if you cannot fight on the ground, you are as good as lost!! you cannot prevent anybody to take you down... and whoever is best on the ground wins!

 

 

[ckdstudent]

Actually you can stop people from taking you down, its quite easy to do. You get out of their way and keep throwing techniques whenever they try to move in. That prevents them from taking you down quite effectively.

 

 

[Taikudo-ka]

Here's an interesting thought - the fight ends up wherever the best fighter wants it to end up.

 

Thus the better fighter can choose to fight stand up or ground against an inferior opponent... The superior fighter will "take the initiative" in controlling the fighting style.

 

 

[Knuth]

Something I learned last wrestling season is that no matter how good or fast you are some is better and faster and can take you down. Granted that the odds of meeting an all state wreslter on the street is slim but staying on your feet against a really good grappler is hard, if not impossible.

 

P.S. A good hammer strike may stop a shot but that is something I have yet to try since the refs tend to frown upon that sort of stuff.

 

 

[ckdstudent]

I wonder if that's part of the problem. In striking competitions you can't take someone down, so no one tries to, which means that people who compete in those have no real concept of how hard it might be to stay standing. Of course the reverse applies in grappling competitions.

 

 

[Taikudo-ka]

Here's another problem, which I feel is particularly pronounced when you start involving mixed striking/grappling matches.

 

That is that for striking to actually "work" it has to be done full force, with the object of actually inflicting injury. I personally would have problems getting into a ring and actually smashing someones face in, purposely breaking their arm, doing full force "concrete breaking" hammer fists onto the back of their skull, etc, just for the purposes of competition, to prove that I'm "The Champ".

 

Striker vs Striker is OK as almost every art has devised some system to measure "good strikes" with points while protecting fighters from severe injury... even Muay Thai wear gloves nowdays...

 

Grappler vs Grappler is OK as most techniques can be used effectively without injuring the opponent. Even potentially damaging locks can be applied only to the point of initial pain, where the opponent taps out, and can easily be tightened until that point is reached.

 

Striking arts, by relying on the speed and power of the strike, cannot use this controlled force and have it achieve the same outcome.

 

Thus, a "striker" vs "grappler" match puts the striker, to my mind, in the unique disadvantage of not being able to effectively employ their techniqes without really hurting the opponent. If the strike is padded or pulled in any way, its not going to have any real stopping power. The glove or semi-contact rule is there to stop the opponent getting hurt, and if they aren't hurt, they ain't gonna stop from grabbing and taking you down.

 

On the other hand, any karateka would find that treating an opponents head like a pile of concrete tiles ready to be shattered just to win a sports competition is a very un-budo like idea. Those who can, probably won't want to...

 

Those who actually main or kill others in the name of sport might find the law interested, and a distinct lack of potential competitors.

 

Remember, most martial artists are trying to avoid "real", full force, full contact no hold barred fights against an opponent who will really injure then severely given half the chance. They are not trying to seek them out and engage in them on a regular basis... If you do, expect to spend a lot of time either in hospital or a police cell. This is not "Fight Club" and if you really engaged in some Hollywood BS like that, expect the broken neck and hospital time. (And no training).

 

So, I'd say that strikers have an innate disadvantage to grapplers in any sort of mixed sporting competition. Not because their art "sucks", but because of the limits of competition.

 

 

[--]

There's an interesting alternative to striking and grappling altogether coutner-balancing. Arts such as Taijiquan and Baguazhang excel in this. Basically, you knock the opponent away by disrupting their center of gravity. You literally send people flying. For all you grapplers out there: take some classes that teach Push Hands. You'll find it at Tai Chi places. It will really improve your balance, control, and composure when grappling. For me, Taiji and Bagua are very effective against grapplers, especially Greco-Roman guys who go fo the bull rush and tackle.

 

 

[ckdstudent]

I love push hands, its also a great way to practise dodges, the movements used to avoid the pushes and pulls are almost identical to those you can use to slip away from techniques. Only real difference is that you can feel a 'strike' coming rather than just seeing it.

 

 

[--]

It works wonders for boxers, too. I showed it to a friend of mine, and now his duck 'n weave looks like Dempsey's. I recommend Push-Hands for any martial artist, prizefighter, bouncer, law enforcement officer, football player, or anyone else whose occupations involve a lot of rough and tough beatings.

 

Pain is good for you. Avoiding it is better.

 

 

[Punchdrunk]

Taikudoka and CKD,

 

I am not trying to be rude but have you all ever fought in anger or in a ring? Are you experienced at dealing with grapplers of any kind ? Have you ever fought full contact against another striker?

 

I ask because CKD, there is a certain arrogance in your responses that either comes from a lot of success or a lack of first hand experience. It seems as if you have disdain for grapplers. Is that true or is it just a misunderstanding of your responses?

 

Taikudoka, the gloves in striking arts are to protect your hands not muffle the force of the punches. Because your hands are padded you can throw more full force punches without breaking bones or causing cuts. Endings that prevent the crowd pleasing knockout. Strikers in MMA can hit with all the force they can muster. Their only disadvantage is if they don't know how to sprawl counter throw or groundfight.

 

Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk but I want to know where you are coming from?