Warp Spider Posted August 29, 2003 Posted August 29, 2003 Paul Wight would kick all their butts. The guy may not have much training, but he's 7'4", 500 pounds, and has demonstrated the ability to hurl a 300 pound man with one arm. Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God!
zer0 Posted August 29, 2003 Posted August 29, 2003 All you TMA next time you are training look at your technique. Most of you will find that your techniques are way too flicky. Look at your kicks/punches next time and ask yourself is this going to really hurt him, or will he just absorb it and continue to belt the hell out of you. MMA have a different mindset they will take that one reverse punch so they can give you a whole load of punches or submit you. MMA fighters i would say can take alot more of a beating then tma. Tma try taking a leg kick. Next time your in a session ask a friend to kick you in your leg(the section of the leg above the knee) with their shin hard. Your leg will probarly go completly dead and i would like to see you try and spar, thats one of the most common moves in a mma ring.There was a video floating around kazaa called muai thai vs taekwondo, this will show you the effectveness of leg kicks. How many of you tma have actauly being proparly hit to the head, i don't mean a reverse punch that was accidentily hit in. In tma you don't really learn how to handle leg kicks and head punches. Watch the really old ufcs and you will see alot more tradional martial artists then you do know. The reason, all the tma that didn't have adequite striking and almost all of them didn't have a clue when it came to the ground. If a fighter wants the fight to be taken to the ground they normally can, they will take that punch to get you down. I'm not saying mma fighters will win all the time, but a person will full contact experiance will most of the time be able to beat a semi contact fighter. They can take more of a beating and will know whats actually effective and whats crap. As a semi contact fighters doesn't always know what actually works in a fight. There is alot of crap in tma. Pressure points, please. There are only two "pressure points" that are effective in a street fight that i can think of the groin and throat. No offense against pressure point fighters its not easy finding pressure points on people, becaues everyone is different and sometimes those pressure points don't work on people. TMA arn't bad, but normally tma artists have no groundwork skills,are too flicky with techniques, don't know how to take a good beating. When i'm talking about tma i'm talking about semi contact ones. But i would still put my money on a mma over a tma who had done there full contact(normally only above the waist hits). Talking about that huge guy, have you ever seen old ufcs. There was a huge guy who looked like a sumo wrestler. If they're big and fat they're normally slow.THis big guy got whooped, fisrt time he tripped up when he charged at the guy so the guy kicked him in the head fight over. Next tiem i saw him fight, the other guy just charged in with head punches and he dropped and ended up just putting his hands infront of his head and lost. Thats another point most tma wouldn't have the same fittness or even strength that most mma fighters have. The fittness level of mma fighterrs has to be really high. Most mma fighters do alot of gym work so i would say generally are stronger then tma, i know there would be alot of tma who are well built aswell, but i'm just saying in general.
zer0 Posted August 29, 2003 Posted August 29, 2003 I might have gone abit off topic, but i still think even full contact sport fighter would lose. Due to much the same reasons i said before. Full contact sport fighters don't take leg kicks or have a clue about takedowns. Pretty much every ufc pride etc fight you see goes to teh floor at some point, unless there is a knock out really quick. Watch old ufcs there you will see alot of full contact sport fighters and they get beaten by people with floor work the whole time. You can see what they're think. they get taken to the floor and are like wtf. Then get submitted. Thats why gracie did so well in the old ufcs not many peopel had the same groundwork skills he had. A striker on the ground is like a fish out of water.
Sasori_Te Posted August 29, 2003 Author Posted August 29, 2003 I see some of your points. I agree that inorder to win a fight you have to be able to take punishment. I disagreer with the percentages that you throw around. But that's what we're here for, to discuss differing points of view. I know I teach leg kicks and groundfighting to supplement my core art. I also teach people that there is nosuch thing as a fair fight when it's real. Let us not forget that I'm referring to truly a no rules life or death street fight. I teac people that if they find themselves in that most unfortunate situation that biting, eye gouging, throat and groin strikes as well as picking up the nearest thing to you to put the odds in your favor. I will be the first to say that MMA would be very hard to beat in a ring. I'm not knocking the UFC or any other contest. They're good entertainment, but that's all they are is entertainment. We also have to realize that there's absolutely no measure that can be used to quantify the opinions being expressed here on this topic. My opinion is my opinion, nothing more and nothing less. We're all entitled to that. A block is a strike is a lock is a throw.
Sens55 Posted August 29, 2003 Posted August 29, 2003 zer0, I think, without meaning to, you proved the point of the original post. The original post is why do many mma artists feel that their art is "more real" and would work on the street. You point to an mma sport, UFC, as validation for your point. That's kind of self-serving don't you think? The point was that each art has it's own measure of success. For mma, it's matches like UFC, Pride or K-1. TMA it varies depending on many issues. But, in the total measure of life, who is to say which is better? If a UFC fighter gets jumped in a bar and someone cleans his clock does that invalidate their art any more than a TMA getting beat in a UFC match? How many TMA practioners have actually used their art to defend themselves or others in real life? I would bet it's a fair amount over the years. So, saying that a mma artist would beat an mma artist kind of misses the point, doesn't it? I think the point is that both mma and tma have goals that differ and it's unfair to measure tma by mma standards.
Drunken Monkey Posted August 29, 2003 Posted August 29, 2003 whoa, at last, a sensible response to this argument. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
Warp Spider Posted August 29, 2003 Posted August 29, 2003 Talking about that huge guy, have you ever seen old ufcs. There was a huge guy who looked like a sumo wrestler. If they're big and fat they're normally slow.THis big guy got whooped, fisrt time he tripped up when he charged at the guy so the guy kicked him in the head fight over. Next tiem i saw him fight, the other guy just charged in with head punches and he dropped and ended up just putting his hands infront of his head and lost. Umm, Paul Wight isn't a fat guy. And, as mentioned, he can hurl a 300 pound guy with one arm.. so I'd imagine he could probrably brute force his way out of any hold and because he's 7'4" would likely be able to outreach anyone in the UFC. What's to stop a guy like that from just grabbing his opponent and throwing them facefirst into the mat? Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God!
Drunken Monkey Posted August 29, 2003 Posted August 29, 2003 cos he'd have to get his hands on the other guy first? look, you cannot just make staements like that because you can never determine what happens in the ring. what if he misses and messes up his attempt to grab. then his opponent trips him (as he has over-commited his grab) he comes crashing down, opponent mounts and lands repeated blows... see what i mean? all pure conjecture. doesn't mean a thing. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
Ben Posted August 29, 2003 Posted August 29, 2003 "There was a video floating around kazaa called muai thai vs taekwondo, this will show you the effectveness of leg kicks." No, this will show you the effectivness of an outclassed, scared still redbelt against a very skilled and famous muay thai boxer. however yes - you are completely right - TKDists cant take a good strong kick to the leg. something we should all work on TMA's arent just for fighting remember. and as for those weak flicky movements? if they work and get the job done, thats all that matters. i personally dont see the need to try and say something is better than something else in this case due to the nature of the thread. so many styles, ways of using the styles, styles of the styles... ... another one of these "*personal preferance and development!*" situations. as for paul white... i see the need not to fight him. infact, that would be suicide. sometimes you have to remember - there are bigger, more brutal guys, willing to hurt you. i'm 5'8 and fairly weak. do the math the outcome... ... yes, me at home watching him on WWF just my 2C
Treebranch Posted August 30, 2003 Posted August 30, 2003 The problem is when you MMA fanatics are talking about MMA fighters you are referring to these well trained champions, not some guy studying MMA after work or after school. Most people studying MA in general don't do it full time. So saying MMA is better than another TMA or whatever is just silly. If I'm in a fight or being attacked which are different, my goal is to get my self safe. Safe meaning destroying the attacker as fast as possible and doing whatever it takes to get that done, if that means pulling a knife, picking up a bottle, throwing something at the persons face and attacking while they flinch, whatever. Most ring fighters are taught etiquette and rely too much on their strength and speed to save them. This etiquette and over confidence can be their down fall in a real situation. I think Tito is a great fighter and he's a tuff MOFO, but even he knows there is someone out there that can destroy him with ease. Plus what the hell does weight class and etiquette have to do with real world and do any of these Mixed Martial Artists know weapons and defences against weapons? Or are they supposed be able to take a hit by a bat or a lead pipe? If you guys depend on your toughness and strength why do you even train? Just get really fit, take steroids and learn to break rock with your fists. Now winning a fight my be not fighting, striking and evading and getting the hell out of there. Everyone can live in their fantasy world if they like to, but if you people think you are so bad (you not Tito) go into a bar in Compton and make a racist comment to the 300lb bouncer and see what your attitude gets you. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
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