Beer-monster Posted August 18, 2003 Posted August 18, 2003 Thanks for the support Sasori. However could we keep the UFC links out, I'm kind of getting irriated with all these threads turning into UFC debates. everyone thinks they can use them to prove or disprove anything. But they have nothing to do with the current subject. Thanks again. Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
Goju1 Posted August 18, 2003 Posted August 18, 2003 Dances are what they've become not what they are. What have I learned. Vital point strikes. Muchimi Hikite (lop sau) Throws (o-goshi, ko-soto gari/gaki and more) Joint locks The fundamental principle of combat How to defend myself One hit mentality Moves that can be varified for the ground (need to test that though, need a ground partner) Defences and escapes from grabs Defences from common attacks The strategy of a complete fighting method of a single kata. Thats not mentioning the spiritual side and thats just from Naihanchi/Tekki kata. If kata are a dance why have they existed for hundreds of years including when karate was mostly secretive so there was no need to look tough? Why does it exist in some form in thousands of martial arts styles the world over. Kata is only useless to the modern student who think karate is about stamping and punching air, they have become misunderstood dances, but thats not what they are. The true brainwashed are those that look for a quick fix and see only skin deep at the kata and don't really think about it. Exactly, Beer monster! Wish i would've thought some of those as well. Probably not enough beer as i was writing. Some brown ale should do the trick, and then back to kata work, cheers!
shotokanwarrior Posted August 18, 2003 Posted August 18, 2003 Sometimes I think that half of the people in the martials should not be there. Keep the traditional arts alive. Where Art ends, nature begins.
Sasori_Te Posted August 18, 2003 Author Posted August 18, 2003 You're quite right beer monster. I should know better than that as it's my post originally. A block is a strike is a lock is a throw.
Beer-monster Posted August 18, 2003 Posted August 18, 2003 Brown ale??? Are you a geordie? kata have an amazing magnitude, I was thionking on my way to work about a bunkai application for the age uke, mawate gedan barai combo (thats rising block turn low block) in pinan nidan (heian shodan) and as I analysed it came up with at least 8 principles behind its working and its effectiveness. Principles that are useful strategies in combat and can be carried over to other techniques. All contained in two movements. I'm an idiot so if I can do it anyone should do better, I hope you all give it a go. If you understand the principles that make one techniques qork you can devise several motions that will work too, thats the principle behind kata (and ironically Jeet Kune do as well). Oops soap box got under me again. Just wanted to give soem people something to think on, feel free to ignore me. Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
Beer-monster Posted August 18, 2003 Posted August 18, 2003 Um..I'd like to apologise to satori. I was just looking back through the posts and noticed I mentioned the UFC first. Sorry about that I should take my own advice. Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
Goju1 Posted August 19, 2003 Posted August 19, 2003 Brown ale??? Are you a geordie? Oops soap box got under me again. Just wanted to give soem people something to think on, feel free to ignore me. Perhaps my ancestors? (surname Woodruff) No, I won't ignore ya, I think we're on the same page ( how come ya only got 8 applications, short drive to work? ) Besides, its hard to ignore genius
Sasori_Te Posted August 19, 2003 Author Posted August 19, 2003 Thank you for the apology Beer Monster but no need really. It's only a friendly discussion after all. A block is a strike is a lock is a throw.
AndrewGreen Posted August 19, 2003 Posted August 19, 2003 It is a common thing to reply. If you can't see the value in it you don't really understand it. Well if it takes 40 years to see the value, what value is it? Have any of you that say it is important ever trained without it for any length of time? I can probably do ~40 kata, I've forgotten quite a few. Studied the bunkai, the mechanics, everything for a long time. Taught all of that as well. Now I see it for what it is, a dance. I quit making the silly excuses and seeing things that weren't there. I gave it a shoot, it was a lost cause. After all that I now feel that kata is counterproductive to learning self-defence/fighting. it has its uses, so does tae bo and dance class. Andrew Greenhttp://innovativema.ca - All the top martial arts news!
Beer-monster Posted August 19, 2003 Posted August 19, 2003 There is the problem in itself you know 40 kata. That is a symptom of the modern karate art not the fighting style. Traditionally a karateka would know about 3 kata and 5 was conssidered a lot Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
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