karatemom11725681445 Posted August 15, 2003 Author Share Posted August 15, 2003 A Karate Birthday Party? I have never heard of that. Is that common? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustr Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 Don't know how common it is but it's an embarassment to the genuine martial arts community. These guys are nothing but afterhours daycare operators. Worst of all their students either get a false confidence from the training or they compensate for their shortcomings by bullying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sens55 Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 Bustr, I'd be careful about some things you're saying. I'm not a member of that organization you're discussing, but if I were I'd certainly want to know what you had seen with your own eyes, not heard....can you say "slander"? I'm not saying you're wrong, because I don't know. But I'd have to believe that if someone was using switches on kids, even in Texas (sorry, I grew up in Lake Charles, some things die hard) someone would be in jail. Also, KarateMom, karate/TKD birthday parties are actually relatively common. Again, this is usually more common in schools that have dedicated kid's classes. Ours does a few for times when the dojang isn't being used (Saturday afternoons & such). They're kind of fun for a kid that is just learning to invite some school friends and show off a little. Plus, for the school, they might get another student or two. And Bustr, that doesn't mean a school can't be serious. The kids classes are for the kids and the adult classes are for the adults. The goals are different. The focus for most kids is to learn discipline and focus. Not necessarily negative discipline, but rather the kind that comes from paying attention, following direction and working on their technique to get better at it. I've seen a lot of shy, scared kids gain a lot of confidence in themselves by working on these classes and advancing a little. No one mistakes what their learning as the equivalent of what the adults learn. But they do learn goal setting and other important lessons while being physically active, which is much better than going home, eating cheetos and playing Playstation2 for hours on end. And some of them become serious and stick with it for a lifetime. It's no different than other sports. No one mistakes a pee wee football game for the NFL. And Karatemom, again, I believe you should make sure your son is getting the positives of what he can learn. The discipline doesn't have to be harsh to be effective. And regardless of age, technique needs to be demonstrated OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER. I still get minor corrections on simple techniques from time to time. It's not that my technique is bad, it is that it isn't perfect. And that pursuit for perfection is what drives people to study the art for a lifetime. If it was something you could study for one year, get it and never have to do more, no one would stick around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renketsu Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 Sorry to repeat a point (made by GrrrArg) - but what are switches? Obviously a word we dont use in the UK! Cheers Andy. Andy Wilkinson (Sandan)Renketsu Karate Club Senior Instructor(http://www.renketsu.org.uk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karatemom11725681445 Posted August 15, 2003 Author Share Posted August 15, 2003 Switches are small, thin branches from a tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renketsu Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 I take it you mean whipping someone with those branches? I dont think I'd stand for seeing that as an adult never mind kids Andy Wilkinson (Sandan)Renketsu Karate Club Senior Instructor(http://www.renketsu.org.uk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibby Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 MaybeI should pay a visit, So I can honestly say I saw it. Yeah, that is a switch. Crasy, arn't they?! As for the Karate Birday party, all I have to say is WTF!?!? How does that work!? is it like an extened demo or something? You watch Karateke's pound eachother while you each your cake? Sens55- My folks lived in Lake Charles for a while, what time did you lvie there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bustr Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 Sens55 I've dealt with people from that org and they are generally closed minded and self-righteous. Even a good beat down (as one of our green belts gave to one of their black belts) doesn't convince them. Anyone who sees through their line of bull usually leaves the org right after getting to BB. Then they search out training partners from legitimate orgs. The person who told me about the switches was a very credible witness. "And Bustr, that doesn't mean a school can't be serious. The kids classes are for the kids and the adult classes are for the adults. The goals are different. The focus for most kids is to learn discipline and focus." I understand that. I noticed Zulfi Ahmed's school on that page. I would hardly catagorize him with these other guys. However it is still bloody embarassing that the general population now views karate as child's play rather then adult discipline. I'm all for kids training and having fun at it. But they can at least train with a decent level of intensity (You know, the kind you see in little league baseball and football). Personally I like to keep the class moving quickly since children have a short attention span which no amount of switching or belittling will cure. Also I think the parents like it when they go home tired. Parties for the class are okay too. But offering a "karate birthday party" to the general public? What kind of business are they in? How about offering open house instead? At least then it wouldn't come across as a daycare. But then again that's what some of these people are running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sens55 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Bustr, I don't doubt that the organization you're talking about has issues. My warning was more of a warning to you because you named their name on a public board and made a specific claim that switches were used on kids. You've just revealed that you didn't actually view it, you heard it from another individual. Regardless of how credible that individual is, it's hearsay. Now, the problem could be that someone in here was thinking of joining that school and, because of your statement, did not. At that point it can be argued that you caused them fiscal damage because you posted hearsay on a public board and that it may turn out to be false, could open you up for a lawsuit. Now, I highly doubt someone's going to sue you for one student. But if you continue to say these things and it damages their reputation based on what could be false accusations and they go out of business, that's another issue altogether. Again, I'm not saying that you should brag about the school, but just be careful about what you say when you specifically mention names because you put yourself at risk needlessly. Of course, if you saw it and can verify it yourself, that's another thing altogether. (You might still get sued, but your chances of winning are higher). On the kid’s front, I disagree with you on a lot of those things. I'm going to guess that you don't have kids yourself. Most kids don't have much of an attention span. Some kids are more focused by nature, some do not. Some suffer from ADD and hyperactivity which can make the same kid fine one day and a pain the next. I also pay the fees for a few underprivileged kids to attend our school. I suspect that they may not be getting fed regularly. If not, then how can they be expected to pay attention? Because of this should they be prevented from attending? I could make the point that they, above all others, need this more than any others. I believe you feel kids should master themselves before they attempt to master the art. But do you believe that maybe the art may be the key to teaching them to master themselves? If you attend classes at the same time as the kids, it can be frustrating since it can eat into your time when they act up. But I also get the impression that you're concerned about what the "general public" thinks of karate. Who cares? If they think it's great, does that my you, your art and your school better? If they think is a day care, does that make your training any less important? If you check your history, you'll see that martial arts has been alternately revered and despised over the years, but it's none the worse for the wear. Don't allow the opinions of others to impact your self esteem. It doesn't make it any less macho. And, as far as the open house, that's basically what it is. An instructor attends and then takes the kids out for a class. He has them do a few punches and kicks, maybe a few self-defense techniques and then they eat cake & ice cream. It has a lot of appeal for younger kids that are actually in the school to bring in their non-MA friends and show them what they do. From a marketing perspective its better than an opening house because you have a hook for attendance that you'd never get with an open house. And, regardless of how anyone likes it, schools need to at least be profitable if they plan on being around. And kids bring in $. I've seen one kid start, then a sibling and then a parent. So a 7 yo's interest brought in 3 paying customers. A birthday party will bring in 10-20 new kids, each with the potential for bringing in more business. If you put the numbers together, you'll realize it's an easy way to get more business, if your school has a kids program. Obviously some schools don't, and that's fine. But for those that do, it's cheap, easy, and at the very least earns a little fee for times the gym would normally be closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sens55 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Tibby, I lived in LC from about '74 to '83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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