MMA vs. Reality

[JerryLove]

I dont think Royce would hesitiate to bit or eye gouge someone if he felt threatened, But your right it proabably would not be his first option. But he does have the skill to use other options effectivly

By "if he felt threatened" do you mean at the time everyone agrees they will not help you? When you have functionally already lost?

 

Of course he's physically capable.. but that's not what he actually does.

I think Most would agree bitting or eye gouging are not very effective in "striking range". by the time The clinch is achieved it is usaally not long beofore one person gets a takedown. So you dont have much time to pull something off before you end up on the ground..at that point see my last statment.

 

Clinches do not universally end up on the ground, and fights i nUFCs have ended from strikes at the clinch. As to weather one of those distracing jabs being in someone's eye would be just that much more distracting...

HAd it been a "real fight" what woudl have kept holyfield from doing the same thing back?

 

What kept him from doing it then?

So are you saying that the traditional arts that were represented in the UFC were at a disadvantage because they couldn't bite or eye-gouge?

I don't know about him; but what I'm saying is these restricions (weather spoken or unspoken) differentiate a UFC from the most severe (and therefore most worrysome) of streetfights.

How do these arts practise these techniques?

 

Answers vary.. I like "slowly". How does your art practice knife work?

If not then how do you know they can get them to work against a resisting opponent - especially an expert grappler?

 

How do you know that an expert grappler that includes briging and gouging as part of his base thinking cannot get them to work. Have you trained to defend against an expert grappler trying to do so to you? How do you know you can defendit?

After the bite I imagine Tyson would back up to leave Holyfield to suffer.

 

In a "real fight "? I certainly wouldn't. If he wasn't biting and gouging before; giving him a minute to think about it should chage that aproach. Exploit the distracting by taking out his eye, then exploit that distraction.

Swimming goggles will allow you to practice eye-gouging relatively safely. If you hit the plastic with an eye-gouging attempt, that would obviously have gone into the eye otherwise.

Techinacally an eye-strike rather than a gauge.. but I tend to equivocate that myself

[TJS]

By "if he felt threatened" do you mean at the time everyone agrees they will not help you? When you have functionally already lost?

 

No im Saying he would proabably rather choke someone out as a first option. If I had the skill he did, I would rather put someone to sleep then Start taking them apart with my teeth. but i guess thats a personal prefrence

Of course he's physically capable.. but that's not what he actually does

 

Maybe.. maybe not, I dont think either of us know as we have never seen him in a fight outside the UFC.

Clinches do not universally end up on the ground, and fights i nUFCs have ended from strikes at the clinch

 

True but thats usally Between two "strikers" . It would certainly be possible to get one off in a clinch but i think in the heat of them moment most would be more worried about avoiding the takedown and keeping their balance.

What kept him from doing it then?

 

The fact that they were in a boxing ring and he knew it was illegal most likely.

[JerryLove]

No im Saying he would proabably rather choke someone out as a first option. If I had the skill he did, I would rather put someone to sleep then Start taking them apart with my teeth. but i guess thats a personal prefrence

 

So then for yuo, techniques like these will not come out until / unless you are loosing. You will be trying to throw them from a disadvantaged position and it's not likely they will turn the tide for you.

Maybe.. maybe not, I dont think either of us know as we have never seen him in a fight outside the UFC.

I've read articles by more than one Gracie discussing fights they had outside of competition.

True but thats usally Between two "strikers" . It would certainly be possible to get one off in a clinch but i think in the heat of them moment most would be more worried about avoiding the takedown and keeping their balance.

 

If all they do is try to avoid the takedown, eventually they will be taken down. No one wins by defending.

The fact that they were in a boxing ring and he knew it was illegal most likely.

Someone bites *my* ear off, it makes no ****ing difference to me where we are.

[TJS]

So then for yuo, techniques like these will not come out until / unless you are loosing. You will be trying to throw them from a disadvantaged position and it's not likely they will turn the tide for you.

 

No, Im just saying in most cases biting would proabably not be my first line of attack. depending of the severity of the altercation I wouldent hesitate to do any of those things from a dominate position.

I've read articles by more than one Gracie discussing fights they had outside of competition

 

And I have never seen any of them with one eye or chuncks of flesh missing they must be doing something right considering the amount of fights some of them have been in.

If all they do is try to avoid the takedown, eventually they will be taken down. No one wins by defending.

 

Right, most try and defend the takedown/regain balance and get back into "striking" distance.

Someone bites *my* ear off, it makes no ****ing difference to me where we are

 

that would proabably be my instinct asweel but obviously Holyfield was thingk something else...who knows

[JerryLove]

No, Im just saying in most cases biting would proabably not be my first line of attack. depending of the severity of the altercation I wouldent hesitate to do any of those things from a dominate position.

 

Would seem unneccessary after you were in a dominant position . I'd use them when they readily presented themselves... same as most any other thechnique.

And I have never seen any of them with one eye or chuncks of flesh missing they must be doing something right considering the amount of fights some of them have been in.

Firstly, there are a good deal of people who would not use these techniques.

 

Secondly, one of the worlds most skilled competitors against "some guy on the street" should be uneven enough that no techniques are going to have effect (IOW be successful).

Right, most try and defend the takedown/regain balance and get back into "striking" distance.

How would you end such a grapple and "reaquire range" without attacking? What ever happened to "working from the clinch"?

that would proabably be my instinct asweel but obviously Holyfield was thingk something else...who knows

Holyfield knows.. but I don't think "bite him" ran through his brain. What happened is that the guy who got bitten was thrown off, same as the guy who get's jabbed... It hurts and is distracting and thereby creates a moment of opportunity (like a feint, or a jab, or any of a dozen other tools of distraction). In the case of an eye attack, it can also be debilitating (causing vision "issues"), and had Tyson chosen the side of Holyfields neck instead of his ear....

[TJS]

Would seem unneccessary after you were in a dominant position . I'd use them when they readily presented themselves... same as most any other thechnique.

 

Yes I should have said dominate or neutral position as opposed to position of disadvantage.

Firstly, there are a good deal of people who would not use these techniques.

 

Secondly, one of the worlds most skilled competitors against "some guy on the street" should be uneven enough that no techniques are going to have effect (IOW be successful).

 

I thought the point was that the diffrence was that in street altercations people would be prone to use such techniques?

How would you end such a grapple and "reaquire range" without attacking? What ever happened to "working from the clinch"?

 

since the clinch can be many things i cant say a specific technique for breaking it since it could be a bear hug/double underhook/MT style clinch etc. but yes you could stay in that range and deliver strikes but I think most would prefer to break and strike especially if they realize the otehr party is trying to get them to the ground.

Holyfield knows.. but I don't think "bite him" ran through his brain. What happened is that the guy who got bitten was thrown off, same as the guy who get's jabbed... It hurts and is distracting and thereby creates a moment of opportunity (like a feint, or a jab, or any of a dozen other tools of distraction). In the case of an eye attack, it can also be debilitating (causing vision "issues"), and had Tyson chosen the side of Holyfields neck instead of his ear....

 

Yes I agree wuch a techniqe can be destracting but that still iisint a fair comparison If i was fighting in a boxing match I would get Thrown off if someone threw a leg kick or a knee because You are fighting under a set of rules but obviously neither of these would be so detrimental in a real fight.

[Warp Spider]

Yes I agree wuch a techniqe can be destracting but that still iisint a fair comparison If i was fighting in a boxing match I would get Thrown off if someone threw a leg kick or a knee because You are fighting under a set of rules but obviously neither of these would be so detrimental in a real fight.

 

But conversely there are many things that you probrably don't expect, not because it's against the rules, (there are none) but just because the environment in a real fight is so varied and irregular compared to the homogenized ring of MMA that you don't always notice something.

 

For instance, if you were to casually walk through an area with another person looking for potential weapons, the conferred about your findings, chances are that both of you would have noticed things that the other did not. You simply might not have noticed a pitcher of beer that could be used to great effect as a swinging implement, or that the table wasn't bolted to the floor and could be tipped over onto someone while grappling on the floor. Even against things like biting, obviously you can't predict and be ready for every possible attack that the person could throw at you. I don't do much grappling, partially for that reason, because it gives the other person time to think and time to come up with something they might not have considered at a slower tempo. In the example of Mike Tyson, for instance, I don't think Tyson planned ahead and said "Okay, I'm gonna clinch, then bite his ear off." It was likely more like "Damn, this isn't working out. Hey.. what's this in front of my mouth? *chomp* Haha, sucker."

[battousai16]

"Mike Tyson, for instance, I don't think Tyson planned ahead and said "Okay, I'm gonna clinch, then bite his ear off." It was likely more like "Damn, this isn't working out. Hey.. what's this in front of my mouth? *chomp* Haha, sucker.""

 

perhaps you're right, but i believe that replays and slow motion showed that he positioned himself in such a way that it looked as though yes, he planned to bite holyfield's ear. of course, i was very young when i watched this, it might have been some garbage on fox playing right after "the moon landing is a hoax" or something.

[TJS]

Yes I agree wuch a techniqe can be destracting but that still iisint a fair comparison If i was fighting in a boxing match I would get Thrown off if someone threw a leg kick or a knee because You are fighting under a set of rules but obviously neither of these would be so detrimental in a real fight.

 

But conversely there are many things that you probrably don't expect, not because it's against the rules, (there are none) but just because the environment in a real fight is so varied and irregular compared to the homogenized ring of MMA that you don't always notice something.

 

For instance, if you were to casually walk through an area with another person looking for potential weapons, the conferred about your findings, chances are that both of you would have noticed things that the other did not. You simply might not have noticed a pitcher of beer that could be used to great effect as a swinging implement, or that the table wasn't bolted to the floor and could be tipped over onto someone while grappling on the floor. Even against things like biting, obviously you can't predict and be ready for every possible attack that the person could throw at you. I don't do much grappling, partially for that reason, because it gives the other person time to think and time to come up with something they might not have considered at a slower tempo. In the example of Mike Tyson, for instance, I don't think Tyson planned ahead and said "Okay, I'm gonna clinch, then bite his ear off." It was likely more like "Damn, this isn't working out. Hey.. what's this in front of my mouth? *chomp* Haha, sucker."

 

Yes there are many varibles on the street.

[Bdaze]

out of the 4 seriosu "stree" fights ive been in, only one was in a deserted parkinglot with both of use facin each toehr. however, none of them where in places with syringes and brbed wire and stuff all over the place (there have been ties when i wrestler over broken glass, but i didn't get more than a few scratches from it)

 

most fights take place in cramped spaces with lots of people around. i got in a fight between a lcoker and a bench in the Gym locker room. it was so tight i lost my balance and fell (this was after he pulled my shirt over my head so i couldnt see him to fight back) but luckily i caught is arm in a lock and almost broke it.

 

basically what im syaing is, you dont have to do anything half as extreme as putting barbed wire and cinder blocks on the ground. but ry sparring on a stair case some time. or maybe in a really small room.