kata application helpful for real fighting?

[Goju1]

There are far better methods to remember drills. Wrestling and BJJ don't seem to have a problem with it. Also drills need to be created to deal with specific things, which differs from person to person. No two people should be doing the exact same drills the exact same way.

 

I don't look at Kata as just 'drills'. At least for our style they are art forms in a sense which are done exactly the same by everyone. The bunkai (applications) are also quite precise. Herein lies the mental, physical and spiritual conditioning inherent to some of the more traditional styles.

[Drunken Monkey]

kata/forms are not just drills.

 

they are a record of moves.

 

you do them not to drill a scenario but just to learn/remember/train/whatever a certain move.

 

the point of this being to refresh your body and make sure the movements are clear.

 

i keep hearing a lot of people saying things that are based on a misconception of what forms training is for.

[AndrewGreen]

Once again, many styles exist without kata and do not forget moves.

 

In fact bunkai is "forgotten" in many groups, so its a pretty bad method of remembering moves isn't it?

[Drunken Monkey]

and again you are confusing forms training with just moves.

 

part of the training is about moving between techniques, learning to flow from move to move.

 

the point of forms having attack/defence moves is to get the idea into your head that you have to move between everything.

 

by having (nearly) every possible transition of moves in a form for you to practice, you should get used to moving from attack to defence, high to low, forward and back and change direction.

 

the forms can also be practised in their entirety slowly to develop strength and accuracy/tidyness of technique.

[AndrewGreen]

Once again, styles with no forms manage all of those things.

[aznkarateboi]

forms are simply another method of doing this. whether or not it is a good one is a matter of opinion.

[AndrewGreen]

Not just a matter of opinion, it can be tested

[Drunken Monkey]

yes but those without forms go and make forms of their own.

 

that's what combos or what-ever you wish to call them are; another type of forms training.

 

how many actually just practice competely loose moves? without any kind of follow through, chaining of moves stepping etc etc?

 

by saying there are no forms suggests that you only train in singular punches, kicks steps etc without reference to everything else.

 

my point is that forms is just a way of learning to move and use whatever you know. because you are practicing a seuence of moves, you should have equal experience of all of the moves in that particular sequence.

 

for the record, i am not saying whether forms is good or not, just pointing out what forms training is for and what it achieves.

[AndrewGreen]

You mean kind of like shadow boxing, bag work and sparring?

 

Lots of people do that.

[Drunken Monkey]

yes.

 

the moment you decide to put certain moves together you are creating a form.

 

it is likely that you will keep practicing this particular sequence until you think of another one.

 

sparring is a test of what you practiced.

 

during this testing you will find holes which you will go and think of another sequence that might fill that hole.

 

isn't this forms training?

 

the only difference is that the olders tyles already have sequences for you to practice before you go and make your own.