kata application helpful for real fighting?

[Tal]

yes. not only i would, i have.

 

when i got into my first serious street fight, i applied part of a kata, heian nidan. fortunately i was not ambushed, and had time to think before the fighting began. i went through the first few steps of heian nidan (why heian nidan, i don't know, thats what i thought of at the time) in my head and thought 'i am going to apply this'. i did, and i defeated my opponent easily, who was considerably bigger than me. since then i have focused more and more and kata, and i have used it in all 3 street fights that i have been in.

 

most of the bunkai i have learnt in karate dojo i would never use in real combat. it is too slow and inneffective. i believe that you need to know the real bunkai of kata to make them effective. the bunkai tought in most dojos today is ineffective or plain wrong in my opinion. i started learning what i think are the true bunkai from a book called kyusho-jitsu by george dillman. dillman explains the pressure point attacks hidden in karate kata. i followed that up and continued to study pressure point fighting and how much of it there is in kata. i believe now that every single movement in a kata involves pressure points, and by practicing to manipulate these points properly the kata become very effective. i used dillman's principles in the above fight that i described, and i will use them in any future fight i am involved in.

[aznkarateboi]

there is no "real" bunkai

[Tal]

by 'real' bunkai, i mean the bunkai the original formulators of the unmodified kata would have applied. i should have said 'original' rather than 'real'.

[aznkarateboi]

That knowledge has long since been lost

[Tal]

i strongly disagree, and what is lost can be rediscovered.

[Goju1]

i strongly disagree, and what is lost can be rediscovered.

 

Right on, my brother! And it is not lost in all styles

[JohnnyS]

If you only practice kata like TKD and most Japanese karate schools, then it's pretty much worthless. If you practice it as Okinawan schools teach it, with the bunkai and two-man kata's, then it's not worthless.

 

Kata is (or at least should be) a way to record drills. Just as you do drills in BJJ and wrestling, so you should do drills in karate - and kata is just the method used to remember those drills.

[Drunken Monkey]

i think it depends on how you train (its that old thing again).

 

learning the forms is one thing but practising them and making them work is another, totally separate and different kettle of fish.

[Treebranch]

No kata won't help you in a real fight, but will help you learn movements necessary for fighting in your particular system.

[AndrewGreen]

If you only practice kata like TKD and most Japanese karate schools, then it's pretty much worthless. If you practice it as Okinawan schools teach it, with the bunkai and two-man kata's, then it's not worthless.

 

Picking up pennies isn't worthless, but if you had a choice between picking up pennies and picking up $20 bills which would you choose?

 

Just because something isn't worthless doesn't mean it is worthwhile.

Kata is (or at least should be) a way to record drills. Just as you do drills in BJJ and wrestling, so you should do drills in karate - and kata is just the method used to remember those drills.

 

There are far better methods to remember drills. Wrestling and BJJ don't seem to have a problem with it.

 

Also drills need to be created to deal with specific things, which differs from person to person. No two people should be doing the exact same drills the exact same way.