Closing in on the SAND MAN

[Warp Spider]

Well, in a way. North Korea has only made threats to counter pressure from the United States. They only want to be left alone, but even a rat will fight when cornered.

 

The addition of uranium fission warheads to their arsenal of course makes them a bit more dangerous than a rat, however.

[King of Fighters]

I think north korea is doing a little more than "counter pressure".

 

I dont understand why bush was so worried about sudam husien because they never even found if he had nuclear warheads. But in december 2002, north korea took out all the cameras watching their missle factories and they banashed all u.n. inspectors from the country. By now korth korea probebly has dozens of nukes and other biological weapons. Plus look at their army, not only is it huge, but they train their soldiors like robots. On top of that they are practicing air raids with every major city. This proves they are praparing for a war.

[G95champ]

Differance

 

1. Saddam tried to get and may have had nukes. Only time will tell. He had already used bio and chem weapons. Don't think for a min. they did not have plans on getting back at the US. (BTW Clinton bombed them in 98 and destroyed several weapons plants this was the same time as the Monica thing, so his actions were for personal reason not because he did the right thing like Bush did) Add to that Iseral destroyed an Iraqi nuke reactor in the mid 80's so take that for what its worth.

 

2. Seond thing the Mid East is much more unstalbe than the Korean Pensualia. Iseral and the PLO, Iran?, Saudi?, Syera?, even Jordan and Turkey we don't really know who our firends are at times and te get a radical nut who could push the region into war out of the pic is big. Lets say Iraq attacked Iseral and Iseral hit back. Now the rest of the Arab nations in the Mid East prob would have joined Iraq and thats a big mess.

 

3. On the same note Korea is isolated. China is not our buddie but we agree to disagree and get alone ok that way. Japan and and S. Korea and the Phillipeans are our buddy. Belive it or not is pretty stable out there. N. Korea is not going to attack China? If they hit South Korea or Japan they will turn the Chinease against them. So Kim can talk all the junk he wants but his hands in a lot of ways are tied.

 

4. N. Korea is not a major threat. So they have one to maybe a dozen war heads. At best they can hit SF or LA. Japan and Hawaii sure. However we are pretty good at shooting down missles. Ask Iraq? Add to that they are not always on target. I mean ours are the best in the world but we miss from time to time. If the first missle is ever launched we will scramble the bombers in Oknawania and have N. Korea flat in an Hr. Iraq was the size of Calf., N. Korea is not close to being that big. Any attack on their part is sucide. They may black our eye but they are signing their death certificate.

 

5. Terrorism. This is a war on terror not on bad guys. Iraq was supporting terror. Maybe not Al Queada but other groups like Islamic Jihad, and Hamass. N. Korea is just evil but has no ties to terror groups that have attacked us as of yet. So as much as we don't like or don't trust they have done nothing wrong yet.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[battousai16]

well, we've had this talk before, so i'm not gonna bother countering all your points this time cuz i'm tired and i'm gonna goto bed. but just to clarify on the "(BTW Clinton bombed them in 98 and destroyed several weapons plants this was the same time as the Monica thing, so his actions were for personal reason not because he did the right thing like Bush did) "

 

...no, clinton bombed iraq before the monica thing.

[Warp Spider]

Differance

 

1. Saddam tried to get and may have had nukes. Only time will tell. He had already used bio and chem weapons. Don't think for a min. they did not have plans on getting back at the US. (BTW Clinton bombed them in 98 and destroyed several weapons plants this was the same time as the Monica thing, so his actions were for personal reason not because he did the right thing like Bush did) Add to that Iseral destroyed an Iraqi nuke reactor in the mid 80's so take that for what its worth.

 

Saddam never used biological weapons, and a gas chamber doesn't really count as chemical weapons in my books. You might also note that almost every country in the world has at least one nuclear reactor, that has very little to do with nuclear weapons. Reactor uranium is not weapons-grade, and needs to be heavily refined to be made into effective warheads. Further, there's no real proof that he tried to get nuclear weapons. Note that North Korea has nuclear weapons and has expressed a willingness to use them.

2. Seond thing the Mid East is much more unstalbe than the Korean Pensualia. Iseral and the PLO, Iran?, Saudi?, Syera?, even Jordan and Turkey we don't really know who our firends are at times and te get a radical nut who could push the region into war out of the pic is big. Lets say Iraq attacked Iseral and Iseral hit back. Now the rest of the Arab nations in the Mid East prob would have joined Iraq and thats a big mess.

The Middle East has always been at war and always will be. No external force can stop it short of total assimilation or annihilation. They're religeous wars, and you can't negotiate with these people to change their religeons. In case you weren't aware, noone in the Arab nations likes Americans, and the only ones who claim to are just doing so so you'll bomb their enemies.

3. On the same note Korea is isolated. China is not our buddie but we agree to disagree and get alone ok that way. Japan and and S. Korea and the Phillipeans are our buddy. Belive it or not is pretty stable out there. N. Korea is not going to attack China? If they hit South Korea or Japan they will turn the Chinease against them. So Kim can talk all the junk he wants but his hands in a lot of ways are tied.

You don't understand the real politics here. China doesn't give a crap about Japan or South Korea. China is bigger than the rest of the world put together. They have more internal politics than the rest of the world has global politics.

 

North Korea will not attack China because they love China and want to be annexed by China. They have wanted to for some time but China doesn't really want them.

 

Further, in case you weren't aware, North Korea's threats were not directed at Japan or South Korea, basically their stance is "stay out of Korea or we'll turn the east coast into a parking lot."

4. N. Korea is not a major threat. So they have one to maybe a dozen war heads. At best they can hit SF or LA. Japan and Hawaii sure. However we are pretty good at shooting down missles. Ask Iraq? Add to that they are not always on target. I mean ours are the best in the world but we miss from time to time. If the first missle is ever launched we will scramble the bombers in Oknawania and have N. Korea flat in an Hr. Iraq was the size of Calf., N. Korea is not close to being that big. Any attack on their part is sucide. They may black our eye but they are signing their death certificate.

Patriot missiles are crap. Well over half of all patriot missile impacts have hit FRIENDLY TARGETS. The vast majority only impact the ground. In anti-missile terms, an "intercept" does not mean the missiles collided with each other, it means they crossed paths and did not collide. Lets look at the first Iraqi missile launch... one missile was "intercepted" but not impacted. The remainder were not even tracked by the Patriot missiles. To put it simply, Patriot missiles are TERRIBLE, and I could personally make a far superior guidance system for under a thousand dollars per missile.

 

In your comparison to Iraq you might also consider that Iraq is presently kicking your butt. Sure you hold Baghdad but your soldiers keep dying. I'm sure your talk about "we're winning the war" is a big comfort to the parents of those marines who are dying every day.

5. Terrorism. This is a war on terror not on bad guys. Iraq was supporting terror. Maybe not Al Queada but other groups like Islamic Jihad, and Hamass. N. Korea is just evil but has no ties to terror groups that have attacked us as of yet. So as much as we don't like or don't trust they have done nothing wrong yet.

You are right that North Korea hasn't done anything wrong, but really, your war on terrorism is being bungled so badly it's a global joke. Strongarm tactics like that will not work against terrorism, as you can see. You go in guns blazing and the bad guys disappear. Whatever happened to Osama bin Laden? You know, the guy who started it all? Where is he? He's probrably sitting on the beach in Cuba watching CNN with Saddam and laughing his butt off.

 

Invading countries suspected to harbor terrorists or who support terrorists does nothing. The government can't find the terrorists and you won't be able to either, though by coming over you've saved them the commute, so now they can attack Americans just by leaning out their window.

 

I don't support the war in Iraq, but now that's it's started, finish the job. Once you've done that, say and do absolutely nothing. Anything that the US does these days only makes the global community hate them more, no matter what it is.

 

PS Sending 7 marines to help defend Liberia is not only a joke, it's an insult. The rebels are heavily armed with artillery and tanks, and are shelling the US embassy in Liberia as we speak. Bush is a laughable military tactician.

[King of Fighters]

Actully, there was a show about the truth of the patroit missle defence system, and it may not have even stopped 1 scud during the golf war. So i doubt that they would help stop any missles comming to attack the us.

[ZR440]

I can't help to wonder where you get your information. For one, it's common knowledge that chemical weapons were used in Iraq in open air environment. I saw the bodies laying on the sides of the roads all curled up in the fetal position. No matter if the means to deliver was in a chamber or out in the open it's still wrong, my misguided friend. Secondly, N Korea would like to be part of China? Was this announced yesterday? I didn't read the newspaper, so maybe I missed something. Thirdly, it is debateable on the effectiveness of Patriot missles, but I highly doubt half land on friendly targets. Targets that are friendly are not targets to begin with anyway. Please provide data to support your claim. Fourth, Iraq is not kicking our butt. Sure, we are losing soldiers almost every day. That's what military conflicts are about. Killing. If you don't like it, don't follow it. And it seems you aren't following it because we are the authority in the country right now. If we wanted to open up on everything that moves we could. Lastly, you should be thankful that there is a country that has the balls to do something instead of sitting on their * hoping terrorism will just go away. And I can tell how you are a global conflict expert in the way you support all of your claims. Tell KofiAnnan I said hello next time you see him.

[Drunken Monkey]

read an article somewhere about u.s weapons testing. can't remember exact details but the genereal gist was that a lazer guided missle missed a fifty metre building by about twenty metres.

 

i remember the quote by the general typr guy though...

 

"my god, we can't hit the broad side of a barn"

 

this was a couple of years back though.

 

will go through my back issues of new scientist to find it...

[ZR440]

Yes, the earlier versions of the Patriot were not very good. There's a problem with trying to hit a missle with a missle. If it doesn't make contact, it has to come down somewhere.

[SBN Doug]

I think this has gone on as long as it should. The original post was a notice as to getting close to Sadam. It's degraded into a discussion of N. Korea.