MuayThai Fighter Posted August 5, 2003 Posted August 5, 2003 one of these days you'll have to wake up and see the application of techniques. a punch is a punch, whether it's in karate or one of the styles you listed. why you can't see this is beyond me. i think in another post awhile back you said tai chi wasn't a martial art. there are punches, kicks, strikes, even a shove, i don't see where the lack of self defense is. i also don't understand how you can rely on th UFC as the deciding factor as to what is effective or not. just my opinion. I disagree,a punch isn't just a punch,as you have stated.A karate punch is different from a muaythai punch and a muaythai punch will be more effective then a karate punch,why?well first of all a karate punch often comes from the waste(belt level)leaving oneself open for a punch to stomache or solar plexus.MuayThai punch comes from above,holding at head level and being thrown whether straight jab,right cross,or uppercut,hooks etc.The less time a punch takes to be executed the more power you will have.Speed breads power.It takes longer to execute a punch from waste then it does if you are holding your fists up at head level. Also snapping your punches as is done in karate and many other styles is less effective then if you just go right through with the punch.Snapping and pulling back on punches does absolutely nothing for the same reason point sparring is not as effective as full contact. I can rely on things like UFC for a deciding factor as to what is effective and isn't because UFC although not an actual fight is the closest you will ever come to a real situation.Also my instructor has fought in UFC and teaches us the same stuff you see in those octagon fights so I can compare it to karate since I used to do it and see the huge difference.
pvwingchun Posted August 5, 2003 Posted August 5, 2003 Tai Chi is more than just forms and a competent instructor will know the martial applications to the movement but they must be practiced as such. Most Tai Chi today is practiced for health but anyone who has studied other Chinese arts will see many similarites in the moves and techniques. I am constantly amazed at how similar tsome of the movements and techniques are to Wing Chun. Wing Chun Kuen Alliancehttps://www.wing-chun.us
MuayThai Fighter Posted August 5, 2003 Posted August 5, 2003 Tai Chi is more than just forms and a competent instructor will know the martial applications to the movement but they must be practiced as such. Most Tai Chi today is practiced for health but anyone who has studied other Chinese arts will see many similarites in the moves and techniques. I am constantly amazed at how similar tsome of the movements and techniques are to Wing Chun. Whether Tai chi,Karate,KungFu,Tae kwon do etc.,forms are just forms,nothing more. Katas originally supposed to be away of hiding unarmed combat techniques being practiced are just really forms.They may have a few useful techniques,but in general they are just a bunch of techniques that have been pre-arranged to look a certain way that's all. The same thing goes for Capoeira an afro-brazilian martial art invented by the African slaves in order to cover up their practice of fighting techniques from their masters.This martial art became more of a dance and the change they had done to hide their techniques ruined their art forever making it just another way of practicing forms. You really think any of these forms would help you to become a better martial artist and better fighter?Then you better just keep on dreaming.
TJS Posted August 5, 2003 Posted August 5, 2003 Muay thai fighter, Who is your instructor?(the one who fought in the UFC)
MuayThai Fighter Posted August 5, 2003 Posted August 5, 2003 Muay thai fighter, Who is your instructor?(the one who fought in the UFC) My instructor who fought in UFC is Lance Gibson at the Gibson Pankration School in Port Moody,B.C. He is well known in the martial arts community and even by people who saw his fight in UFC. http://www.gibsonpankration.com He knocked out his opponent using his knee to guy's chin.
Valithor Posted August 5, 2003 Posted August 5, 2003 Why is it that so many people focus on the adjective instead of the noun? Those who view the martial arts as nothing but learning to fight are missing out... missing out on much of what the arts have to offer - and probably missing out on much of what life has to offer too.. Keep Smiling!
Tibby Posted August 5, 2003 Posted August 5, 2003 I never once said MMA doesn't have its limitations infact I did say all styles do,just some more then others. Um... yeah, I was quoting you... anyways....What makes mixed martial arts a sport and traditional arts not?What to you makes other arts more of a style then mixed styles? Oh, traditional arts can be sports. The Difference is, it is a sport that pratices using just that style, it can b sport, but there is normally more to it. In the Case of MMA, the mat is what it is all about.As far as I am concerned mixed martial arts are more of a martial arts then your typical traditional arts.After all martial arts is originally meant for self-defense yet styles like karate don't teach much of it,they teach alot of katas,where as other styles like Pankration,Savate,Shooto etc.concentrate specifically on self-defense. The word "martial" is for combat,if I am correct.Traditional arts have very little of that training. If it is such a "martial" art, then why do the Armed forces use Jujitsu guys when wanting to teach and train the men who will teach and train the Soilders? Why not an MMA guy? And no, you are not correct. Bot h the Karate and the Jujitsu I've taken are Traditional, and both treach and train for combat. Do you even know the difference between a martial arts style and sport? Yeah, A sport is something like MMA.A karate ka,judo practitioner,and a boxer can enter the octagon but they would all lose without knowing any other styles.To win in the octagon you would have to know a combination of arts such as stand up and grappling or you will lose as simple as that.No single art will work in UFC or Pride.In case you haven't noticed most fights go from stand up to the ground and usually won by submission. Yeah? Point being?Traditional arts are not the type of martial arts that will work in competitions like UFC,Sabaki Challenge or Pride. How about this, someone gets a Blakc belt from a Great Karate school, then gets a Black belt from a great Judo School, How well will he do in MMA? He has learned a striking and a Grappling, and on top of that, he learned both Traditional Styles. BJJ and other non-Traditional Styles have flaws in them that where hammmered out ages ago in the Traditional Styles.MMA not being a style is what makes it a better martial arts,because then it means it is less limited. If it is not a style, then how can it be a Martial Art?
Drunken Monkey Posted August 5, 2003 Posted August 5, 2003 you don't care for forms because in your opinion, the highest point in martial arts is in a ring of some sort. in that case, the forms have no point fot you. this does not mean that they are useless. we've have been through this with you before and i know that it is pointless talking to you about it because you will not see beyond what your instructor tells you. and no, katas are not to hide techniques? where did you get that useless piece of information? post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
battousai16 Posted August 5, 2003 Posted August 5, 2003 speaking of useless information... "I disagree,a punch isn't just a punch,as you have stated.A karate punch is different from a muaythai punch and a muaythai punch will be more effective then a karate punch,why?well first of all a karate punch often comes from the waste(belt level)leaving oneself open for a punch to stomache or solar plexus.MuayThai punch comes from above,holding at head level and being thrown whether straight jab,right cross,or uppercut,hooks etc.The less time a punch takes to be executed the more power you will have.Speed breads power.It takes longer to execute a punch from waste then it does if you are holding your fists up at head level. Also snapping your punches as is done in karate and many other styles is less effective then if you just go right through with the punch.Snapping and pulling back on punches does absolutely nothing for the same reason point sparring is not as effective as full contact. " no, a punch is hitting someone with your fist. be it a front punch, a reverse punch, a muaythai punch, a wing chun punch, the goal of the technique is to hit the person with your fist. i'm just gonna drop the UFC retorts, because i will never see it the way you do. "I hear you can kill 200 men and play a mean six string at the same time..."-Six String Samurai
pvwingchun Posted August 5, 2003 Posted August 5, 2003 MuayThai Fighter I don't know what your experience in the martial arts is but it is obviously been seriously lacking in good instruction or you would not have the views you do. Either that or you have been brainwashed into your thinking and I have met people with your attitude and when they come to the kwoon to "try out" they are the first ones to "tap out" so to speak when they are put in a situation on the floor where they have to back up what they are saying. I train in both Wing Chun and have recently took up Tai Chi. And I can tell you that for every move there is an application to the movement. Since I have trained in WC much longer I can tell you there is no wasted movement, everything we do has a purpose. The WC forms are a set of tools or answers we use to apply in certain situations and since every situation is different there is a different answer for each situation and each individual can apply whatever he is most comfortable with in any given situation. Wing Chun Kuen Alliancehttps://www.wing-chun.us
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