delta1 Posted July 25, 2003 Posted July 25, 2003 From your list, I'd recomend BJJ as they are proven effective, get you in great shape, work on finesse instead of brute force, and can throw and strike as well as roll on the ground. Best advise is you should try them all out and see which seems more effective to you, as well as which you enjoy the most. If you don't enjoy it, you won't practice as you shoul and nothing is effective done like that. Freedom isn't free!
Kirves Posted July 25, 2003 Posted July 25, 2003 Paul Vunak, a very respected Jeet Kune Do instructor, a man who is known for his long history of street fights (spent several nights in jail too because of the brawls) spoke highly of BJJ already back in the early eighties when there was no BJJ-craze around. And we are talking about a man who is known to only study stuff that he knows works in the streets. And Chuck Norris started studying BJJ after the mid-eighties under the Machados because he found it extremely effective (and he studied Judo under the wrestling/groundfighting legend Gene LeBell). BJJ is good.
Treebranch Posted July 25, 2003 Posted July 25, 2003 I don't agree most fights end up on the ground. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
Kirves Posted July 25, 2003 Posted July 25, 2003 Treebranch: BJJ is not just for the ground. Paul Vunak said he was shocked that people who trained for 6 years or more, were helpless against BJJ guys with 6 months of BJJ training and that made him study it. You can use BJJ techniques to break someone's arm in a second while standing up. Only sport BJJ is pure groundwork, even in the column in Black Belt the Gacie (I forget which one) said in a street fight they prefer standing up, as well as in their self defence book. And many (not most but many) streetfights go to ground. If you know how to a) take it to the ground b) prevent "a" from happening c) finish a fight on ground in seconds d) try to finish it while standing e) how to force the fight to the ground if that suits you You are very good, much better off than only knowing KM for the same training period (the last comment is just my own opinion).
Treebranch Posted July 25, 2003 Posted July 25, 2003 I agree BJJ is good, it came from Jujutsu and has a lot in common with Kodokan Judo. We have a lot of grappling in Budo Taijutsu which is basically Koryu as you know. I agree for most people concentrating on grappling is good. Most fights end up in a clinch (grappling) but not all fight end up with both people on the ground. In a real situation in an unpredictable environment the ground is the last place I want to be. I still haven't even skimmed the surface of Budo Taijutsu and I'm not in a hurry. If I find holes I will fill them. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
Kirves Posted July 25, 2003 Posted July 25, 2003 Very good. I was just trying to find the best one of the given options. Of course there are always better options if money, time, and distance are no obstacles. From the given choices I'd take BJJ. That's my point. Treebranch: BBT is great. I tried it once and I regret that I can't do it any more.
Treebranch Posted July 25, 2003 Posted July 25, 2003 I live in Glendale California and the nearest BJJ school is in the Valley which is quite a haul. My friend teaches there at the Machado school. I once asked him if he could get me in , you know at a special rate. He said that it is so crowded there it's ridiculous, and it's pretty expensive. I really wanted to check it out. Now I hear that in Pasadena they just opened a new school, which is fairly close to me. I'm going to check it out very soon, hopefully their rates are reasonable. Anyway train hard. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
Hohan-1 Posted July 26, 2003 Posted July 26, 2003 Remember INTENT IS EVERYTHING. YOU WILL FIGHT LIKE YOU TRAIN. IF YOU DON'T TRAIN FOR SELF-PRESERVATION THEN WHAT ARE YOU TRAINING YOUR MIND-BODY TO DO? Learn a style that concentrates on finishing things quickly and unfairly. Krav Maga isn't necessarily effective because of their advanced fighting principles, but because they teach you the reality of the street--- "Don't Stop"! Many of their principles are quite iffy. For example their use of an Americana or Key Lock while mounted on your assailant (won't work on a strong, flexible cat, plus cement hurts and scrapes) or their method of getting up off the ground (it's like a broke breakdance move ---NO BAL-ANCE). Kirves is right about GJJ. Helio Gracie always wanted the core principles to be their self-defense techs. A lot of it is standup. Check out the video "Gracie Self-Defense" and you'll see what I mean. Many GJJ practitioners and especially non-GJJ BJJers fail to train in these core techs. That is not how GJJ was formulated. First and foremost it was meant to be for self-defense. That being said, it is no better than many other styles at teaching this. In fact many of their techs and principles share a common theme with Karate and Japanese Grappling styles. I don't like Krav Maga. It is a very easy art to learn, and the learning curve rapidly decreases the longer you are in. You will be mediocre forever IMHO. I've talked to people who trained in Okinawan styles then Filipino styles, Freestyle JJ and so on, then claimed that they are what they are from their 3 months of Krav Maga training. Like it wasn't the previous 20 years of MAs study, hahahaha! Oh well that's how Implicit and Explicit memory works. Assimilation is often far after a skill has been learned. I've watched a few classes and it makes me cringe. They don't even know their own history. The same MMAs cat that gave it praises above all his other knowledge of MAs said it came from a Nazi soldier who defected to Israel, hahahaha! No * that is for the reals!!! Even I know it was from a Czech jewish ghetto kid that learned boxing, wrestling and GYMNASTICS. Those are hardcore credentials to start your own art on. Especially the GYMNASTICS. Where's Bart Conner's Gymkata when you need it (or was it Kurt Thomas')? He structured it (loosely) like karate and judo, belts and all. Where is his Asian Art experience from? Why the same BB rank structure? Does the Israeli Army really learn that junk? They can't fight H2H then. Oh yeah they are fighting against poor, starving arabs, I forgot. Try that stuff on your average 200+ pound 6 ft. American or European bar brawler. Uh-uh. no good... Hahahaha so silly are we humans. G-U-L-L-I-B-L-E... So any art that teaches you standing controls, quick traps and locks, lots of dodging and limb destructions, eye gouges, neck strikes, with striking and balance upsets, strangulations, vital point strikes, fast joint "snaps" (forget the locking unless 1 on 1, takes too long), low kicks and leg destructions, overwhelming force, use of every possible weapon available to you whether a part of your anatomy or objects in your vicinity, slams, dynamic throws, sweeps and trips, etc. would be good for real fighting. The teacher is a big reason for a systems street efficacy as is the student. Matsumura Sokon said "adapt to change". Don't look past the traditional. What killed a man back then will kill a man now. OK folks good luck and bye... Traditional=EternalNidan, Hakutsurukan
Treebranch Posted July 26, 2003 Posted July 26, 2003 A little lengthy Hohan, but very well put. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
Judo Warrior Posted August 21, 2003 Posted August 21, 2003 I think you should go for kung fu or Jiu Jitsu - A coward dies a thousand deaths, A warrior dies but once.- No matter how strong the wind is, The mountain cannot bow to it.
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