TKD bashing?

[Sens55]

Well, I think it's gets a bad reputation because there are a lot schools out there that are interested only in your money. Show up, buy the school dobuk, pay your fees and every 3 months you get a belt. This, by no means represents the best of TKD, but there are enough of them (in my area I can think of at least 3 other school chains with many actual dojangs) that do this that it may be the image that those outside TKD see. And, in my opinion, there are more of these types of schools than good schools (but the same could be said for other arts as well). But, there are more TKD schools in most regions, so the image may be tainted by stereo-typing all TKD in the same boat with the money mills.

 

On top of that, the sport sparring frequently instills habits in its practicioners that would probably get them hurt in a real fight. They are much more focused on delivering a fast, point-scoring kick to the Hoguk than using an actual debilitating blow. I've sparred with people that deliver punch to my chest but leave their chin wide open for a counter that would lay them out for a week if I would have been able to drill them with more than a friendly jab.

 

In fact, about 2 months ago I had a guy at work challenge me to spar....at work! I thought we was joking. We work at a professional office in a Fortune 500 company. But, he found out I studied from a coworker and said that he was a brown belt and had won a bunch of tournaments. I said that was cool and he could come by my dojang anytime for a workout. He started bouncing and said, "Naw, we can do it here" and let fly with an outside-inside crescent kick in the vicinity of my head. He missed by about a foot and a half and said "See, I gotcha'." Needless to say I was a little PO'd and I said this wasn't the place, and besides, I'd hardly say he "got me" since it wasn't even close enough to make me flinch. He responded with the exact same kick, but closer. I ducked and moved to his side and found his arm in a bad position, so I slipped him into an arm bar with a wrist lock and forced him to the ground and simulated a kick to his throat. His eyes were HUGE. He couldn't speak and stammered off a reply saying something like "That's not TKD, that's wrestling!" I agreed but pointed out he was the one on his back and that I didn't want to do this anyway. Later he apologized and explained that at his school that don't actually make "contact", but simulated contact, and that coming within an inch of the opponent scored a "point" and a kick to the head was a KO. I said that at our school we actually make contact, and that in general a crescent kick to my head (I'm 6' 300 lbs, he's 5' 10" maybe 150) would only upset me, and get him killed on the street.

 

Now, he made a fool of himself in front of about 20 coworkers by bragging about his TKD prowess. I doubt any in the room walked away thinking it was effective. Even though what I learn is also TKD, they surely missed the subtlety of major philosophical differences in our respective TKD schools. Instead they remember that he studied TKD and never touched anyone. It was actually a sad scenario, and, if I had to do it over, I would have tried harder to get away. At the time I felt cornered by the circumstances, but in retrospect there was more I could have done to avoid it. But no one got hurt, he sits right next to me now and everything's cool.

[Icetuete]

Well, I think it's gets a bad reputation because there are a lot schools out there that are interested only in your money. Show up, buy the school dobuk, pay your fees and every 3 months you get a belt

 

i agree with many of what u said, but i dont think it indicates that ur in a bad dojang, when u have to pay fees, a dobok and for belt tests. i'd rather call this ordinary. i depends on how much u pay and how much a get for ur money. an overpriced dobok, way too expensive belt tests and contracts, that can only be signed for a 1 to 3 period or something would indicate such "money mill" in my opinion.

 

can be wrong though - maybe i didnt encounter too many different dojangs to judge.

[NyteShades]

I think what Sens55 is saying, is that all you need to do to advance is show up. Then every 3 months you get a belt just to keep you coming back, weither or not you've earned that belt.

 

Basically pay the money and every few months we'll GIVE you a new belt.

[Icetuete]

ah, i see.

[Sens55]

Yep. That's what I meant.

[OldRookie]

I guess I am one of the lucky ones...as with Black Dragon & others my Dojang stresses self defense techniques more than forms & point sparring. We don't have a cookie cutter formula to how our training advances. Some nights we may work over & over on Aikido based locks & then add eye gouges,groin strikes, kicks to the knee..whatever works. We practice low kicks & fighting "dirty" to save your neck on the street. To quote our Chief Instructor Mr. Roby, "One of the coolest sounds you will ever hear is a bone breaking!"

 

With our sparring--if we have a tournament getting close,sure- we will work pretty heavy on point sparring but we do not train to just pad up & win trophies. Most of our sparring classes we work a wide variety of techniques, different levels of contact and do practice sweeps,takedowns,

 

defense against weapons & multiple attackers and we get to punch to the head--and we do have students "No change" after testing from time to time.

[Black Dragon]

The next person that spouts his sweeping generalization about TKD being "only" anything. I'm gonna tattoo Old Rookie's post on their forehead.

[Ironberg]

One of the primary reasons for TKD being bashed all the time is because so many American Students and sometimes Instructors just plain stink at it. Kicking is like being an entreprenuer - it is difficult to apply, but if applied well is so darn rewarding. Then there's the whole darn McDojo problem...

 

TKD people who are always getting beat-up by Muay Thai people could in fact be good TKD practicioners - but their downfall is that they have a brain the size of a wallnut and don't know when to NOT kick high, or whatever they need to understand about their own limitations.

 

I'm not saying that high-kicking is bad or good - just take it with a grain of salt. There are people out there who are pretty darn good at TKD and know how to handle themselves - they are just hard to find. I'm a firm believer in the saying: "It's the practitioner, not the art."

[karatekid1975]

I kinda agree with you there (hey, people, don't bash me. I do TKD). You do make a good point there. When I first moved here, all the TKD schools I looked at were sport/high kicking stuff. But I don't blame it on the art itself.

 

But the art of TKD still exists. My school is a good example. It was hard to find (and I was in another TKD school at the time when I found it). It's a shame, because the "art" of TKD is so awsome. If you have a good instuctor, you can become an awsome fighter. But schools that teach the "art" of TKD are few and far between

[Cyberclown]

I hear a lot of debate about which a school should focus on. There are many benifits to competing in TKD, learning to apply one's skills being a big reason.

 

However, the differences between what is applicable in the ring and on the street should always be observed.

 

When I am training a competitor, especially a dedicated one, of course I am going to focus on drills that improve their game of "foot tag". Too many non-competitiors seem to think one gains no practical edge by competing but I disagree. Especially with children. They learn to keep on fighting, even when feeling pain or feeling they have little or no chance. The spirit of competition shares bloodlines with the spirit of survival.

 

On the other hand only about 10% of my students compete at all. That is why in my regular classes (not "special" classes) I emphasis three things, Conditioning, Technique, Mindset.

 

With many people, the latter can make the most difference.

 

With my adults (of who very few compete) I focus much more on the self-defense applications that they would encounter. I teach much about verbal manipulation, (not escalating situations, defusing anger, etc;) as well as mental/emotional responses that occur when attacked. (Heart rate increase, narrowing of vision/sound. We also go over scenarios that would apply to the situations they may find themselves in.

 

But "Art"? o many times people compare the "art" of their defense to how well their techniques work in real self-defense situations. I consider the "Art" to be the essence of martial arts that allows a person to grow and constantly struggle to make changes to improve all facets of their lives, not just their physical fitness or fighting ability.

 

The numbers are changing, but for the most part, adult attackers know very little about self-defense. (save for a few common tricks picked up by chance) For the most part all they know is "self-offense".

 

Almsot any fighting art, learned well and practiced diligently will allow most of us to prevail in a street attack. Unless you are running around in a bad part of town where gang activity is high, most others who pick fights have little or no defense skills beyond size, strength or a hard puch and possibly know a dirty trick to get them in.

 

Even a person with moderate boxing skills will usually prevail in an encounter with a ruffian. That is all most men will encounter. For people who must take on armed or multiple attackers more serious training would be a must.

 

Someone posted earlier about a TKD guy getting the heck beat out of him by a person of another style. I don't see that that proves anything.

 

No one style can stand alone and claim to be the style that beats all other styles. There are too many variables, which is excatly why there are so many styles. But IMO, there is only ONE art...."Martial Art"