RF_Brown Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Don't forget to mention that "blowing out a match" sound the ITF guys make while doing the Sine Wave. Actually I think the most graceful, I almost hate to use the word but, prettiest martial arts moves I have ever seen was GOOD ITF guys performing their Tuls with Sine Wave (small). Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bretty101 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 ... If you look at the hyung as performed by the Taekwondo stylists on the Legacy CDROM set (they were chosen by Gen. Choi to perform the hyung) you will see that the sine wave motion is very slight indeed and I would probably consider that the students he chose were performing the patterns as he intended.... Sorry to quote you AC!! I was just looking at that Legacy CDROM. I'm at work and everythings going a bit slow so though i would brush up on Choong Jang. I've just realised that I do not get the sinewave at all!!! It looks so sloppy. I must admit i'm a hip twister not a bouncer. Bretty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookey Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Hold on everyone, I have a simple question! Who on this board can move from a right walking stance to a left walking stance(forward stance) with out somewhat straightening the knee (to stand) and bending the knee into the next stance...who here can even walk a straight line without utilizing the knee joint...after all it has only to purposes (extend the leg, and contract the leg)! This is sinewave! Your body naturaly moves this way! When you step, your body losses some height as the legs are spreading...as you come to an upright position before steping out with the next leg you have regained some height...Sinewave! Taekwon! Spookey Do not defend against an attacker, but rather become the attacker...Destroy the enemy!TAEKWON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bretty101 Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Granted spookey, you do raise up and drop down into your stance. But isn't the theory of the sinewave (when doing front/walking stance for example) to drop down first then come up before dropping into the final stance? There is a definate down up down motion, i think it looks sloppy and promotes a weak stance. I think as you say spookey you raise up out of your stance and drop into your next stance, solid and strong. People don't spar sinewave or break bricks with it!! Back to the roots, Shotokan strong stance, out and out power! Bretty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufrthanu Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Actually you can move from front stance to front stand with out standing up however it takes alot more strength in your legs. Basically you just need to pick up one of your legs quickly without moving the other an inch and pivoting. This may not eliminate the sine wave effect completely but it will get it down to a speed bump. Long Live the Fighters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John G Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) Interestingly enough, some time back I was walking past a karate dojo (I think it was goju-rue??) and decided to take a look see. The instructor had some of his students with broom poles on their shoulders (arms over each end of the pole). They had to move forward without the pole moving up and down (sine motion) or from side to side. Horses for courses I guess. One must remember that Taekwon-do (ITF) has assimilated techniques from other arts. “Sine motion” has two purposes, firstly, the downward motion is the same kind of 'sinking' technique many Chinese styles do (dragon, southern wing chun etc), the idea being lowering your body at the moment of contact using gravity to result in a solid stance during the execution of the technique. The second and least taught purpose of “sine motion” in conjunction with correct breathing technique is found when executing slow motion movements within the tul’s (e.g. pressing blocks, flat finger tip thrust) in the form of internal organ massage (also borrowed/stolen from Chinese styles Tai Chi and Nei chai etc.) Depending on what you do (breaking, tul’s, sparring, SD) the amount of sine motion varies. I was taught that with the exception of tul’s and sparring the extent between the up and down peaks for the average sized person (5’ 10”) shouldn’t be more than one inch. As sparring is just a game of tag there is no reason to generate power, therefore sine motion during sparing is reduced. During tul’s (especially during tournament) the sine motion is sometimes over exadurated for aesthetic purposes, this is what a lot of non ITF people watch and misinterpreted as sine motion. I guess I’m just a hip twisty, bouncy practitioner. Just my two cents worth. Respectfully, Edited February 16, 2004 by John G John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
equaninimus Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Who on this board can move from a right walking stance to a left walking stance(forward stance) with out somewhat straightening the knee (to stand) and bending the knee into the next stance..Whne transitioning forward, the front leg remains bent as the rear leg is bent at the knee as well. The (newly) rear leg straightens on completion. When moving backward, the rear leg bends during the transition. Raising up wastes motion. It is easier, I guess, and for those schools that depend on large numebrs of students paying lots'o'money in theer BB clubs it is probably better than discouraging people by actually making them train. There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John G Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I can see there is some understandable confusion with regard to sine wave motion and stances. Let me first state that ITF Taekwon-do doesn’t have a front stance (Zenkutsu dachi?), the closest we have to that stance is a walking stance. Our walking stance (Gunnun Sogi) is described as such: This is a strong stance for front and rear, both in attack and defence. 1) Move one foot to either the front or the rear at a distance of 1.5 shoulder widths between the big toes and 1 shoulder width apart from the centre of each instep. 2) Bend the front leg until the knee cap forms a vertical line with the heel, extending the opposite leg fully 3) Body weight even on both feet 4) Keep the toes of the front foot pointing forward, the opposite foot 25 degrees outward. 5) Tense the muscles of the feet with the feeling of pulling them toward each other Note that the length of our walking stance is only 1.5 shoulder widths long, and the front knee is inline with the front heel (not the front toe) and that the centre of gravity is between the insteps with a 50/50 weight distribution. I have been lead to believe that most of our stances have been shortened (made taller) to accommodate for a wider range of kicks and to lessen the time between transitions. The problem with taller stances is that you loose a degree of stability, that stability is gained back through sine motion. I’m not a bio-mechanical engineer, and therefore can’t state unequivocally that sine motion with taller stances generate the same power at the moment of contact as those from a lower stance and lower centre of gravity. What I can say is those who practice current ITF tuls without sine motion are doing themselves a disservice and should consider using the lower stance set and tuls pre sine wave motion. Whne transitioning forward, the front leg remains bent as the rear leg is bent at the knee as well. The (newly) rear leg straightens on completion. Our transition is exactly the same except we start to rise up from the beginning of the transition, peak (an inch or so depending on persons height) mid transition when both legs are bent and drop back to the original stance height at the end of the transition. Raising up wastes motion I guess it would be from a front or lower stances, Horses for courses. It is easier, I guess, and for those schools that depend on large numebrs of students paying lots'o'money in theer BB clubs it is probably better than discouraging people by actually making them train. Do I detect a bit of TKD cynicism Respectfully, John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
equaninimus Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 You detect a great deal of McDojo cynicism. Not all McDojos are TKD. There are three of them within a ten minute drive from where I live, two TKD, and one Isshin Ryu. There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bretty101 Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 celtic bhoy!!, (the guy that started this thread) Are you following this? I just noticed your from near where i used to train! Bretty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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