sansoouser Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 ??? The amateur shoots his hands out ferociously, but lacks any true power. A master is not so flamboyant, but his touch is as heavy as a mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gheinisch Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 As #18 says in Funakoshi's 20 precepts - "Practicing a kata is one thing, engaging in a real fight is another." But it also teaches and trains the body to flow from one technique to another without having to think about what you are going to do. In a real fight there is no time for thinking, if you have to pause to consider what would work best or is the best technique for a circumstance then you are already in deep trouble. So for me, kata does help in kumite and real fight situations. Some here don't believe in the usefulness of kata and thats OK. But for me they are very important and the bases to build on. IMHO Respecfully, Greg "If your hand goes forth withhold your temper""If your temper goes forth withold your hand"-Gichin Funakoshi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirves Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 If you train kata only as a solo form, then it won't help much (except maybe greases your technique musclememory a bit). But if you train it the old Okinawan way, i.e. partner training with bunkai (ti-chi-ki) and oyo and free sparring, then it will help tremendously. The whole point of a kata is that it is the collection of the self defence methods of your system. It is so sad that people who have kata in their systems, have forgotten all the applications and do kata for nothing. Then they learn newly devised self defence tactics separately as they aren't in touch with their actual art and it's self defence tactics as they are documented in the kata. I suggest you do some searches for books on kata bunkai ("Bunkai-Jutsu", "Shihan-Te", "Five years, One Kata", and so on) and attend some seminars by people like Pat McCarthy who seems to hold it as his task to inform those who have been with empty kata without knowledge about what it contains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G95champ Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Agreed with what eveyone said but Ill add this. Kata forces you to train certin reflexes. Once you do something enough it becomes second nature. Thus when attacked your body may go into a combo from a kata without you having to think and say wait a second. The only way to be a good fighter is to fight. However you can become a great fighter by doing other things like kata to add to your training. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotokan_Fighter Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 i agree with all of you, im just glad that no one is saying kata is useless beacuse it isnt, katat is a must for every karate ka. "When I fight, I fight with my heart,and soul. My heart, and soul is Shotokan Karate."Shotokan_fighters creed"karate has to come natural in a fight, if you have to think about using karate in a fight, you will loose the fight"3rd kyu brown belt - shotokan karate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CW Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Well stated gheinisch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewGreen Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 No, they are usefull for learning how to move, for relaxation, for excercise, for health, for co-ordination, for balance, but not for fighting. To learn how to fight, you need a partner who is fighting back. Andrew Greenhttp://innovativema.ca - All the top martial arts news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorin Ryuu Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 No, they are usefull for learning how to move, for relaxation, for excercise, for health, for co-ordination, for balance, but not for fighting. To learn how to fight, you need a partner who is fighting back. There are many styles or teachers out there that do treat kata as simply a method of movement, relaxation, etc. However, as Kirves stated (and as usual, what I wanted to say...) is that kata should always be performed with bunkai, visualization, and partner-help is always a plus. Martial Arts Blog:http://bujutsublogger.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G95champ Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 No, they are usefull for learning how to move, for relaxation, for excercise, for health, for co-ordination, for balance, but not for fighting. To learn how to fight, you need a partner who is fighting back. Mr Green we meet again LOL How can you say they are useful for learing ot move, relax, co-ordination, balance, and health in general but not be an aid that would make you a better fighter??? Thats like me telling my football team that weightlifting won't make you a better player. Weightlifting has nothing to do with playing the game of football but if your bigger, faster, stronger of course your going to be better. Right??? (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewGreen Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 Guess it is a matter of cost/benefit. Some people think it has value, others don't But when I fight the movements and postures are not the same as kata. So the movements, the postures, the co-ordination are different, and often opposite to what I want to do in fighting. Doing Ballet will enhance all those things too, but it won't help you learn to fight,. Andrew Greenhttp://innovativema.ca - All the top martial arts news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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