San Soo

[White Warlock]

Shorinryu Sensei, if i had witnessed what you did, I too would hold to your opinions. I am not even remotely okay with what you described as their behavior or attitude, nor is it in line with Jimmy Woo's philosophical teachings... of turning the other cheek, whenever and wherever. Of showing respect to everyone and recognizing the value of a good pair of running shoes.

 

Seems you were exposed to the Frank Woolsey branch, a 'very' early breakaway 'streetfighter' student from the traditional studies that is marred with black stories. I never put much effort or interest into researching this, nor am i inclined to enter into such 'trivial' politics.

 

Suffice it to say, every system has it internal strife and controversial 'black sheep.'

 

As to the belt ranks, pfah! If you read my introduction, you would have noted that when i trained, there were no belts in san soo. Jimmy Woo used to say, "I have a belt. It hold up my pants." *

 

But, belt ranks have existed with Frank Woolsey's branch from the onset.

 

* Unfortunately, Jimmy Woo eventually introduced belt ranks a few years before his demise. I was led to believe he did it just to shut up all the whiners.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

White Warlock -- the other guy I talked to on this forum last year also said what I have seen here locally is not typical of San Soo schools. What their roots are..I don't know. The head instructor did tell me the system is based on Chinese prisons, where practioners of San Soo would take other prisoners and practice techniques on them to see what would break bones, maine or kill...not a pretty history if you ask me. But again, these people are my only expose to the art, and they have left a bad taste in my mouth because of it.

 

I don't know what affiliation they are with, but I'll ask around a bit and see if I can find out. I haven't been in their dojo in over a year.

[White Warlock]

The head instructor did tell me the system is based on Chinese prisons, where practioners of San Soo would take other prisoners and practice techniques on them to see what would break bones, maine or kill...not a pretty history if you ask me.

I've heard the same story, as well as about 13 other stories. Personally, the history of a system is not nearly as important as whether it effective or not, but... some people like to 'brag' about something, especially when they can't brag about themselves.

But again, these people are my only expose to the art, and they have left a bad taste in my mouth because of it.

Unfortunately, you're just a tad bit too far away for me to visit. I did, however, respond to a post here in this forum and included links to various online video clips. Maybe what you see and listen to there will help wash out some of that offal you were fed (take special note of the clips with grandmaster Jimmy Woo talking. A proud, yet humble man who often taught his classes in casual 70's attire. And yes, he wore a black belt... to hold up his pants. hehe)

[Shorinryu Sensei]

[

But again, these people are my only expose to the art, and they have left a bad taste in my mouth because of it.

Unfortunately, you're just a tad bit too far away for me to visit. I did, however, respond to a post here in this forum and included links to various online video clips. Maybe what you see and listen to there will help wash out some of that offal you were fed (take special note of the clips with grandmaster Jimmy Woo talking. A proud, yet humble man who often taught his classes in casual 70's attire. And yes, he wore a black belt... to hold up his pants. hehe)

 

Unfortunately, I'm on a slow dialup setup where I get at BEST a 48000bps connection, and often a 36000 or less. It takes me forever to download and run videos on this piece of dung! It's not my PC, but the part of town I live in. Old wiring. I've checked thsi PC at friends homes and it works fine there.

[delta1]

Another revival! But I have some questions, and this seems better than starting another thread.

 

What you guys describe, and what little I know about San Soo, it sounds a little like some of the reality combatives I've worked with before. Very aggressive, works off seting up a reaction, constant forward pressure or go for position. Never give him a chance to recover from your last strike.

...San Soo does not believe in defense, but rather overpowers and constantly attacks it's opponents. There are no defensive techniques in San Soo, according to these people. To me, this is just plain foolish, and against another skilled defensive fighter, will leave themselves wide open to counter attacks.

 

The defense is an offense, where you receive rather than just block or counter. Every "defensive" move either repositioned him, did some dammage, effected his ballance, trapped, or doubled as a strike- and often several of these at once. It used a lot of circular motion and gross motor skills, nothing too fancy, and absolutely nothing half way.

 

Stances and footwork were prety basic, simple. They were more concerned with relative position than a perfect stance- that and, of course, good ballance in both stance and movement.

 

There was some wasted movement with drawing back to strike and such, but for a quickly learned, basic fighting system, it was ok.

 

How does this compare to San Soo?

[Rich67]

Whoever said that San Soo does not deal with defense is incorrect. San Soo does not deal with defensive techniques in the traditional sense. In other words, it doesn't teach the old "step back and block" or "back up and parry then counter" defenses. It teaches a "stuff" defense, in which you actually move into your opponent's attack to throw him off balance and disrupt his movement. Once inside this zone, you immediately go to elbows, knees, head butts, and eye gouging or groin strikes. This form of attack DOES work well against other martial arts. (DISCLAIMER: I am not referring to ALL arts or ALL practitioners here, just giving a broad range example). If I were to spar a TSD or TKD student who is used to a combination attack, forward moving, I am really messing with his mind when I move in and stuff his attack. He is used to his sparring opponent moving back or out of the way and blocking the attack, then countering and going on the offensive after he sees an opening. Granted, not all people spar this way, but try it one time. As soon as your opponent moves in, get INSIDE his attack and use your knees on him or even just grab and sweep him. You'll see it's pretty practical. And you'll see how it can throw some (not all) people for a loop and make their attack inefficient.

[delta1]

Thanks, Rich. Sounds more like it all the time. Attack the attack, keep him off ballance. The object wasn't even to keep him on the defensive, but to hurt him and keep him hurtin'. Total domination from the first move, regardless which one threw first. Sounds like they shared some of the same philosophy and concepts, at least.

 

We did some takedowns, throws, and joint locks as well. San Soo do a lot of that? I see in your earlier post (way earlier) you do some. We did just enough to capture, control or subdue the average guy long enough to hit him again, or to get help there. But you couldn't by any means call it comprehensive.

[Drunken Monkey]

just because i like to point this out to people and repeat myself and because i like to point this out and repeat myself....

 

if you talk about how different styles do things and remove proper names and concerntrate purely on the principles, you will see that we are all learning roughly the same sort of thing.

[delta1]

It is true that principles are pretty much common to all styles. But different styles emphasize and utilize them differently. The result is that, while there are many similarities, there are some radically different styles. I doubt that anyone would confuse Long Fist and Wing Chun, even if they'd never seen any martial arts before.

[Drunken Monkey]

well, that's the main difference between the traditional styles and the more modern ones...

 

the things you mentioned could have been straight out of a wing chun class.

 

or silat class.

 

or muay thai.

 

and y'know,

 

i've had wing chun mistaken for tai chi once....