San Soo

[sansoouser]

This is about San Soo, not san shou. Tell me what you know about San Soo and how it compares to other arts, and if you think it is effective for fighting. Just sorta compare it to your style.

 

Here's alittle about it, there are five families in San Soo,

 

TSOI (Punching & Kicking)

 

Li ( Leverage )

 

Hoi ( Pressure Points )

 

Fut ( Psychology )

 

Hung ( power and strength )

 

There are no set patterns, it is suppose to be one of the most effective fighting arts. Alot of groin strikes, in high ranks some teach Dim Mak the art of so called pressure point killing. Where you can hit someone in a place and make them sick or die in days hours minutes.

 

Thanks

[cross]

Depends how you use what you learn and how you adapt it to a method that works for you. They can teach you how to do a groin strike but unless you know how and when to use it and can do it under the stress of an agressive situation than it will be useless.

[White Warlock]

Old thread, but one in need of input -

 

Sorry Cross, but your post lacked anything more than quick quip. Granted, you were the only one who responded, and for that you deserve kudos.

 

To compare, one needs to have experienced San Soo, in addition to another system (or other systems). It also needs to be understood that San Soo is a complete system.

 

Being a complete system means two things. One is, you won't learn it all in a few years as it does not consist of a set amount (or series) of techniques/actions that must be 'perfected.' It is a system that 'becomes' a lifelong study. The other is that a complete system consists of all aspects of combat. The study of striking, anatomy, body mechanics, psychology, physical principles, and environ.

 

This being said, there are very few 'complete systems' experienced in the United States and Europe. Most 'popular' systems focus on just one or two aspects of combat, and in doing so... one can become very well equipped to handle a circumstance that is geared to that particular form or instance of combat.

 

Unfortunately, having an altercation happen at just the right time, in just the right place, under just the right conditions, and in a 'specific' manner in which you trained for... is a pipe dream. The fact of the matter is, when an altercation happens, it is likely not going to be something scripted. You are likely not going to be properly attired, it may just have rained, you may have loved ones nearby... or in immediate danger. The opponent may have a weapon or he may have friends. You may not know who those friends are, in the scene of onlookers. You may not be aware that one of your opponents is well trained in grappling, while another is well trained in a kicking technique. You may be at the bottom of a set of stairs, or halfway through a doorway when confronted. etc etc etc...

 

A complete system attempts to 'help' you to build your reactions and responses to deal with any situation, as well as help you to 'decrease' the likelihood that you'll end up in such situations. It helps you to not only learn how to fight, but how not to fight... and when not to fight.

 

So... to compare San Soo, a complete system, to an incomplete system, you will obviously find that the incomplete system may provide more indepth instruction in a very limited repertoire of actions, but that... due to it being incomplete, you will find there are glaring gaps... exploitable gaps.

 

If you compare San Soo, a complete system, to another complete system... apples and oranges. The hard part here is not merely finding another complete system, but being able to 'knowledgeably' recognize when a system is complete.

Edited February 19, 2004 by White Warlock

[Rich67]

Basically, I have studied TSD and San Soo. Although my overall experience with San Soo is limited, I got a pretty good feel for the philosophies involved in it. I never got into the "pressure point" DimMak, for example( I honestly have my doubts about it). My instructor taught us more the mental preparation for a fight and the attitude needed to win. We learned a lot about vital striking areas (Tsoi Ga) and what reactions occur when one is struck in these areas to help better guide the fight. We did light sparring and learned some joint manipulation (Li Ga) and throws. It's a very interesting style; I would have loved to spend more time on it. As far as practical applications, I only had one street fight while I was studying it. I think it helped me better mentally prepare for the fight, and gave me confidence in my aggression. This, in turn, ended the fight quick... the guy walked away. San Soo teaches you to be fast, on the offensive, and injure your opponent quickly. This thinking will throw many of your opponents off, and it certainly is street effective. But as with any art, it depends on how well you apply it.

[Treebranch]

It's the groin kicking art.

[White Warlock]

Thanks Treebranch. That was insightful.

[Treebranch]

Any time brotha!

[delta1]

...I never got into the "pressure point" DimMak, for example( I honestly have my doubts about it)... .

 

Don't be too sure it doesn't work. A few years ago I was visiting a class and the instructor had one guy who wouldn't shut up. So, he walked over to the kid and did a serries of pressure points on him, and said "That was Dim Mak. Now, all your children will be born naked." The kid just stood there for a minute, too stunned to say anything, and the instructor got the class back on track without more interruptions for push ups. It was an amazing thing to see.

[White Warlock]

Any time brotha!

hehe.

 

And delta, funny stuff.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I've never taken a San soo class, but there is a local dojo run by a 8th (maybe 9th) degree black belt which I have had the opportunity to watch numerous classes of theirs and demo's.

 

I also have gotten into a discussion in the past with another member of this board some months ago and described (as I will here) what I saw, what the head of the dojo and students have told me, and what my opinions are of the art...as I have seen it done locally. Keep in mind that m exposre to this art is limited to this one dojo, but with a instructor ranked 8th/9th Dan, I would "assume" that he knows what he's doing.

 

Do I feel it's a complete art? No, not even close. As the instructor and his students have told me, San Soo does not believe in defense, but rather overpowers and constantly attacks it's opponents. There are no defensive techniques in San Soo, according to these people.

 

To me, this is just plain foolish, and against another skilled defensive fighter, will leave themselves wide open to counter attacks.

 

San Soo's philosophy is that they can connect and devastate their opponent easily, and defensive techniques aren't necessary. Foolishness in my opinion. Sure, against an untrained, "Average Joe" on the street, it would probably work quite well. Against a good boxer or martial artist...no, I don't think so.

 

For an example, the system I train in (and I'd wager the majority of other systems are the same) is very defensive oriented and we like an aggressive attacker. The vast majority of our techniques and training are geared for an attacker to come at you with hands, feet or weapons. Personally, I'm very non-aggressive when I fight and eat up an aggressive person.

 

One thing the San Soo head instructor told me years ago, and has always stuck in my brain was this. "If you are walking on a path and another man walks towards you, do not get off the path. Rather, make the other person get off the path so that you can pass." This statement denotes pure aggression and intimidation to me, which is what the local San Soo dojo teaches.

 

Sorry, I can't agree with that way of thinking, but to each their own.

 

Again, this may just be unique to the local dojo, and not to all San Soo dojos.

 

Another thing I witnessed in their classes was that promotions, once they reach 1st degree black (takes about 4 years), are WAY to fast. Basically, and this is what the head instructor told me, they can get one black belt per year after their shodan. The local dojo is VERY top heavy with high ranked people. I don't have exact figures, but the last time I watched the class, they had more 4th-7th Dans in it than they had under black belts.