kle1n Posted July 14, 2003 Posted July 14, 2003 and i must say it rocks. i have a 9th grade rather famous instructor and the school seems to rock. didnt know wing chun is so cool. wing chun owns! you got any usefull suggestions for me? i find doing the forms quite hard. u got any hints or something for a beginner Be everything. Be nothing.
Prodigal Son Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 Welcome to the clan The most important thing, at least with my school of WC, is to keep it RELAXED - remember that it is 'The Feminine Art'. If you don't understand this now, just persist - you will soon ! >>>PS<<< ------------------------------------------------------------------------Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Sifu Wong.
kle1n Posted July 15, 2003 Author Posted July 15, 2003 u mean dont block but just lead the enemy punches away? Be everything. Be nothing.
Prodigal Son Posted July 16, 2003 Posted July 16, 2003 LOL - I mean never fight force with force. When you touch hands with a good senior, feel his or her energy as they are in contact with your hands - it should be relaxed and 'springy'. Then try to make your own energy like theirs. And damn is that difficult ! It just comes with time. There are different schools of thought on this amongst the different Wing Chun factions, but mine sees receptivity as the key. If you get all macho and tense in WC, you get beaten up ! >>>PS<<< ------------------------------------------------------------------------Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Sifu Wong.
Playaloc916 Posted July 17, 2003 Posted July 17, 2003 I started doing wing chun a couple of months ago. I like it's simplicity. But I find that some people go way overboard with it's effectiveness. For example, I was practicing with another student who started the same time as me. After about 8 classes, he claims he can use wing chun to beat any other style. We were doing sticky hands, and he's obviously practised more than me, so he's countering me all the time. So he starts acting all overconfident. He tells me don't be so tense, or he can push me over. This is ridiculous, because it was me who was pushing him baccwards. I tell him that I did TKD, so it's hard to drop everything I learned from that. He starts saying that he can easily beat me, since I need room to kick, and he can just walk up to me and keep chain punching my face! This bloody rookie! This is his first martial art, and now he thinks he's Yip Man. Okay, now if it were in a parking lot, I would've knocced him out, but out of respect, I didn't. Some of his fallicies I wanted to point out: 1. If someone tries to tackle you, it's VERY hard to punch their head and knocc them out before they make contact with you. 2. If we both punch, we won't automatically start doing sticky hands. 3. I don't need much room to kick. A jump spinning back kick doesn't require much room at all. 4. If you keep chain punching, you leave your lower body wide open to something like a knee strike or a body shot. 5. Chain punching will not knocc someone out, unless you're really strong, or it's a flash knoccdown. Sorry if I seem like I'm saying wing chun is bad. I'm not. I really like it's simplicity, and how you develop reactionary skills. I just really wanted to blow off some steam.
Kirves Posted July 18, 2003 Posted July 18, 2003 Wing Chun (and this goes double for Wing Tsun) is often taught and marketed with a lot of "we are the best" type of hype (see Kernsprecht's book "On Single Combat" for an example of what kind of hype/propaganda I'm talking about) and this is often done to such a degree that it is easy to forgive a rookie to actually buy it all. I guess it is also used as a confidence booster, as the tactic used by wing chun (go right in when attacked, no matter what the attack) requires a kind of ultimate confidence in your technique and ability, so this hype will build that kind of confidence in the beginner.
Kirves Posted July 18, 2003 Posted July 18, 2003 2. If we both punch, we won't automatically start doing sticky hands. But if a tkd guy punches, the wc guy often will stick. This is the basic premise of the wc mantra "receive what comes, follow what goes, free hands charge straight": 1. receive what comes: meet the attack, get in touch with him 2. follow what goes: don't lose contact, if the attacking limb retracts, your limb sticks to it (hence: "sticking hands") 3. free hands charge straight: when contact is lost, attack immediately with the limb that lost contact So, if wing chun is done properly, stickyness should be one of the main tenets when at least one party in the fight does wing chun.4. If you keep chain punching, you leave your lower body wide open to something like a knee strike or a body shot. If that is the case, you need to study more until that isn't the case. It's like saying "you can always beat a kickboxer by kicking low when he punches". Of course one must learn how to protect the downstairs while being buzy upstairs, wing chun teaches that too. Usually they brag about being able to attack with three limbs at the same time, not to mention their "universal solution".
Prodigal Son Posted July 18, 2003 Posted July 18, 2003 Okay, now if it were in a parking lot, I would've knocced him out, but out of respect, I didn't. Well you should have ! There is only one fighting distance - and that is when we are close enough to touch. Outside that distance you can do what you like, but we only fight when we can touch each other. Your friend sounds like a fool to me, because with eight lessons under his belt any WC student with 9 lessons or more should be able to beat him. Anyway, he shouldn't be doing anything but punching for the first six months. If you are telling me that you are doing Chi Sau in eight lessons, I would gamble that the standard of it is very, very poor. It takes years. Anyway - to your points:Some of his fallicies I wanted to point out: 1. If someone tries to tackle you, it's VERY hard to punch their head and knocc them out before they make contact with you. No it's not. If someone attempts a tackle, they must go in a straight line. The WC man angles off. And once you start using a sandbag, you will find the power to knock others out. Not in two months, though. 2. If we both punch, we won't automatically start doing sticky hands. Nobody said that you would - it's a training exercise, not a fighting style.3. I don't need much room to kick. A jump spinning back kick doesn't require much room at all. Try it against someone who has been doing WC for any amount of time - he'll simply close in and push you over. You just cannot execute a jumping turning kick quicker than an equivalently fit WC fighter can rush forward. We train for EXACTLY those moves.4. If you keep chain punching, you leave your lower body wide open to something like a knee strike or a body shot. You need another teacher if he has not explained how to close your gates properly with a punch...5. Chain punching will not knocc someone out, unless you're really strong, or it's a flash knoccdown. I've knocked dozens of big guys out - and I'm only 5'9". It's called practice. And anyway, the punch is only the delivery system, like a missile - the warhead can be a fist, a palm, or a Biu Jee - which puts EVERYONE down. Seems to me like you are very new to WC. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you understand it yet - you don't. It's very, very complex and is a journer of many years, and a good Sifu will give it to you bit by bit when you are ready for certain information, and what he gives will answer your old questions and give you some new ones, over and over. Oh, and ANYONE who practices more than you will beat you. if you want to be the best, you must practice most. twice a week in class is not enough - punches every day, form every day, drills every day. More than the next guy. Good luck with your training - remember that it is the one true ULTIMATE martial art , and make sure you slap some sense into your friend. >>>PS<<< ------------------------------------------------------------------------Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Sifu Wong.
Prodigal Son Posted July 18, 2003 Posted July 18, 2003 Wing Chun (and this goes double for Wing Tsun) is often taught and marketed with a lot of "we are the best" type of hype (see Kernsprecht's book "On Single Combat" for an example of what kind of hype/propaganda I'm talking about) LOL Kirves - name an art which doesn't claim to be the best ! Just imagine some Karate Sensei saying "Shotokan is the second best martial art..." Never ! We all do what we do because we think it is the best way. If you do something because you think it is the second best way, then surely you are wasting your time ? If I thought there was a better art than WC, I'd be doing it - and I think we all share that feeling about our art. Respec' >>>PS<<< ------------------------------------------------------------------------Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Sifu Wong.
Playaloc916 Posted July 18, 2003 Posted July 18, 2003 Thanks to Kirves and Prodigal Son. Yeah, our class is taught by a young guy. We meet once a week for two hours. He said his grandmaster was taught by Yip Man. Yup, we've started doing chi sau in lesson number 7 or something. But the very first thing he had us do, was the first form siu lim tau, or something like that. About my points. #3- Of course. I meant against HIM. I wouldn't dare do it to someone who has been doing WC for years. I know I would be jammed up. #4- We have done chain punching mainly as an exercise, so he hasn't told us how to defend our lower gates while in the act of punching. My point was that this guy was an idiot for believing he was invincible within two months of class. If someone asked me if I thought that my WC teacher could beat my old TKD teacher, my answer would be yes. From what I've seen, a seasoned WC fighter would beat most other martial artists. But with time. I just wish I could go back to my old TKD school and use the skills that I've picked up, and will pick up from WC! I remember when I used to spar with other students. Imagine some 6 foot woman doing a jumpiing side kick five times in a row. What a joke!
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