Top 10 Self Defense Martial Arts

[JohnnyS]

Shotokan_Fighter,

 

You say you wouldn’t get taken down so easily, but what would you do to prevent it?

 

I used to think along the same lines as you do until I was shown the light. Here’s one way in which the grappler can take you down (although this is more of a BJJ approach):

 

1) Stay just outside your range and wait for you to commit to a strike.

 

2) As soon as you commit, then either shoot in for a clinch or double-leg, or block/evade your strike and wait for when you start to retract your limb. So let’s say you’ve thrown a front kick and now the grappler blocks it. As soon as your leg starts coming back, or dropping to the ground he moves in and you have no base with which to launch a powerful strike, and only one leg on the ground so you don’t have mobility.

 

3) Once he has clinched he’ll have his arms around your waist, pulling your hips into him, and keeping his head tight against your body. By pulling your hips in he arches your back and takes away your balance, and without balance you can’t throw a powerful strike. Even if you could throw a powerful strike, his head his buried tight against your body, so you can’t get leverage or a good shot in.

 

4) He keeps pulling your hips in, hooks one of your legs with his and trips you, ending up on mount.

 

Don’t take just my word for it, try it with some friends. That’s how I worked this out before learning BJJ and grappling properly. Myself and a bunch of black belt friends from different styles including TKD and karate would get together in my backyard and one person was allowed to kick, punch and knee etc as hard as he wanted and the other guy was only allowed to grapple. The grappler won every time. The striker might get in a shot, but not hard enough to knock the other guy out (and we were trying!), and although we got a few black eyes and fat lips at first, it didn’t affect the outcome at all.

[Shotokan_Fighter]

You say you wouldn’t get taken down so easily, but what would you do to prevent it

 

what would i do to prevent it? welli really cant just tell you what im going to do beacuse it might not happen that way. ok you te;; me this you guys all think BJJ is an invincible art against striking arts right? lets say im fighting a BJJ stylist and he comes at me first, and im waiting, i see him coming down for a double leg takedown, i let him get close enouph to me where his head is coming down, i step back out of his attack, he stumbles right into a knee to the face, when he falls to the ground i hit him with a reverse punch, the fights done. or heres another way were fighting, i see an opeaning where i can ankle sweep him, i do, he falls to the ground, smacking his head off the ground, when hes laying there i do a stoming kick right into his chest, fights over.

[JohnnyS]

I’m not saying BJJ is invincible, what I’m saying is that Shotokan karate does not prepare people to fight against BJJ.

 

What BJJ does well is play the odds. The odds are:

 

(i) You won’t be able to stop the clinch, because it’s always easier to close the distance than it is to create distance

 

(ii) You don’t train to defend against a clinch, or a double-leg takedown

 

(iii) You won’t knock someone out with the one shot you might get in because the BJJ player will be moving in when you’re off balance, or moving in too fast and you don’t practice punching someone who’s head is moving in towards your body at speed.

 

(iv) Once the fight hits the ground, you don’t know what to do and you’re right where the BJJ fighter wants you.

 

Also, a note on your defenses:

 

a)A double-leg takedown is not a tackle, with the person running blindly forward, arms out, head down in a zombie-attack. A proper double-leg is done from arms-length, and usually off something else such as a kick or another tie-up to get you off-balance, and with the back straight, head up and arms in. Because it is done at such a close distance, stepping back out of the attack is not viable (otherwise wrestlers would do that rather than sprawl against each other).

 

B) Grapplers get swept and thrown and taken down all the time, so it’s hardly likely they are going to knock their head on the ground from a foot-sweep. At least, it’s not something I’d want to rely on.

[Shotokan_Fighter]

with the person running blindly forward, arms out, head down in a zombie-attack

 

i didnt mean it like that. i know shotokan dosent train you to fight against grappling techniques, but i know some from my own knowlage, i used to be a wrestler for 3 years, so i know plenty grappling techniques, and how to escape and counter them.

[cross]

TJS Said:

horrible argument...of course it ultimatly comes down to the fighter...what he is trying to say is most things being eqaul a MT fighter would dominate a TKD stlyist the majority of the time.

 

Actually i think he was trying to say " I would bet my money on a MT fighter over a TKD fighter anyday. "

most things being eqaul a MT fighter would dominate a TKD stlyist the majority of the time.

 

Most things arnt equal on the street are they? But the again, maybe, by chance, if the wind is blowing in a southward direction and the moon is three quarters of its way through orbit... Then maybe they will be the same height, the same weight, have the same muscle to fat ratio etc.. And the MT guy will win

[Warp Spider]

I don't think it's fair to argue that certain styles are more effective inherently than others. It all comes down to how well you can perform the techniques and pick an appropriate one.

 

In some fights a grappler will be able to close in and maul a striker. In others the "committed" attack is merely a test of your ability and your attempt to clinch is met with a sudden strike that not only stops the clinch attempt, but also often sends the grappler themself to the ground by themself. The striker could also throw themselves into a backwards somersault and roll back to their feet to increase the distance when you try to close in. (though not all fighters are capable of doing this quickly from a standing position) It mostly comes down to which fighter out-thinks the other. A takedown is not impossible to evade, nor is a strike always easy to block. Conversely against some opponents a takedown will be very effective. Because of the wide range of fighting styles it is impossible to say that one certain style is "better" than any other.

 

Muay Thai is an effective art against fighters who stick to the floor. TKD fighters are often light on their feet and can evade leg and knee techniques through dodging. On the other hand, TKD strikes pack nowhere near the punch, especially versus a "hardened" fighter like a Muay Thai practitioner. So which one is "better?" As stated, it all comes down to who is better at their respective art and who is all around a better fighter.

 

Futher, I'll say it again, though it has apparently already been beaten to death on other threads.. UFC is not a reliable source of information on which art is better. Real fights involve shoes, teeth, chairs, etcetera. Shoes make kicking with your foot a very attractive option. No shoes makes the shin a better choice. Therefore just because Muay Thai does better in UFC, does not make it better, it just makes it better suited for the UFC. Personally I consider Muay Thai to be better than TKD, but that's just my highly unfounded opinion, in reality I would suspect that it comes down to training and physical aptitude.

[Prodigal Son]

i didnt mean it like that. i know shotokan dosent train you to fight against grappling techniques, but i know some from my own knowlage, i used to be a wrestler for 3 years, so i know plenty grappling techniques, and how to escape and counter them.

 

So what was all that bull about "I will not cross train and will be the ultimate Shoto warrior" ? If knowledge gained in your past is useful today, then why not seek new knowledge in the future ? It's just ignorance.

 

And whilst we are on the subject, here are my top ten reasons why Shotokan doen't work against so many other arts...

 

1. Too slow.

 

2. Too slow.

 

3. Too slow.

 

4. Too slow.

 

5. Too slow.

 

6. Too slow.

 

7. Too slow.

 

8. Too slow.

 

9. Too slow.

 

10 Some of them underestimate everyone else's ability.

 

And yes, I DID do Shotokan for four years before I realised that I couldn't fight. But after only two years of Wing Chun (and after that time I was still a rank amateur in the scheme of things) I thrashed my former teacher (15 years training and teaching) in a friendly match - and he is a NAME Shoto guy in the UK. But that's another story...

 

Like it or not, some styles ARE more effective than others, and only a fool thinks that they are learning the 'Ultimate' style. So I would advise you to keep an open mind and learn something from everyone you meet, my friend - the price of ignorance and arrogance together is a nasty death on the street.

 

"If I had a motto, it would be 'Thats cooooool ! Now, how do I learn to do that ?'" Richard Bandler

 

>>>PS<<<

[SBN Doug]

Alright, now you're turning this into a vs. thread. You all can either get back on topic, or have the topic closed.

 

Your choice.

[ValeTudo]

Ok, back on topic! Here's my list, in order:

 

1) Vale Tudo (MMA)

 

2) Krav Maga

 

3) Wrestling

 

4) Muay Thai

 

5) Western Boxing

 

6) BJJ

 

7) Kyokushin

 

8. Kali

 

9) Escrima

 

10) Anything but Shotokan Karate (I kid, I kid....)

[sansoouser]

It comes down to the fighter period. Uh no not the art the fighter. No shhh i'm talking it's the art. Ok are you done? Now i'll get on with my sentence.... Ok, let us forget every name of every style. Now it is the fighter vs fighter not art vs art because there is no art just 2 guys fighting. If one wins it wasn't his style because there are no styles it was him, same for the other. See what i'm saying? Styles are just names take those away and its the fighters own personnel style because no one does a style perfect, yes not even your 10 whatever belt sensei, he develops what works best for him. As should the style should allow you too.

 

There are no arts, just names because when you fight you are not doing karate or BJJ you are fighting it may look like it but you are fighting like the barbarians of yesterday, fighting is fighting regardless of whatever you say you are using.