Top 10 Self Defense Martial Arts

[MauyThaiMonster]

They were indeed KF masters and were hailed as the best KF had to offer.

 

Not one fight went past the 60 second mark.

 

But i guess we will be told that this was because it was in the ring and there were rules.

 

In the street none of them would have ben kncoked out because they would have used a range "deadly" techniques, in fact i think they would have lost even sooner.

 

Especially nowadays, MT has added so much to the style since the 70's.

[wing chun kuen man]

I have actually seen pictures of these fights in a very interesting book about Thai Boxing and yes they did happen and if my memory serves me right it happened twice in the 1970´s. So this gives Thai Boxing more depth than Kung Fu? Why, because 30 years ago two teams of Kung Fu fighters from Hong Kong lost their matches to Thai boxers in a Bankok ring? I think that it was in the 70´s as well when another Hong Kong sifu fought a Thai boxer and knocked him out during their match, I saw the pictures in a martial arts magazine. My own sifu has taken challenges from many fighters from many styles during his years in France and he told me that Thai boxers and kick boxers in general were among the easier challenges that he had faced.....he found them predictable. My sifu, who is not chinese is chief instructor level in wing chun - mainland China lineage. The thai boxers and kick boxers he faced were not from Thailand, they were French.

 

One more thing, deadly techniques do exist in Kung Fu as they do in many other martial arts. As I have explained before mastering kung fu takes longer and not many people are willing to make that sacrifice or nor have the patience. Maybe you have not come across good kung fu practioners. If you think kung fu does not work, that is fine by me. Maybe if you ever travel to the far east you can ask around and find a good kung fu school and maybe you can challenge the master just like the chinese do when they have doubts about someones martial ability, good luck.

 

I still like Thai Boxing and I consider it an effective martial art for self defence, that is why it was on my top 10 list.

 

Peace,

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[MauyThaiMonster]

Yes but i would like to see him fight a thai boxer of his experience.

 

Or someone with reasonable fight experience, who were these people he fought, how long had they done MT for.

 

Perhaps he did win, i still thinkk MT is a more powerful striking system.

 

I would love to see a KF kick more powerful than the MT round house,, a more powerful knee, elbow or punch.

[Drunken Monkey]

actually, wing chun wasn't designed to fight wars.

 

it was meant to 'take out' people in the tight alleyways of old chinese cities...

[wing chun kuen man]

If our argument is on which style is more powerful then it is a mine is better than yours argument and can go on forever. Don´t confuse the issues. I say that as an art kung fu has more depth than Thai Boxing, as it involves many levels in its trainning and philosophy. That is not to say that Muay Thai does not have depth nor that it is a shallow art.

 

Let me put it this way, every time you say that your art has the most powerfull punches a kung fu or karate stylist will give you examples of their exponents punching through bricks, tyles and even rocks. A kyokushinkai man can refer to Mas. Oyama killing 3 of the 52 bulls that he fought with single punches. A Tiger Claw fighter will tell you that at higher levels their exponents can tear off tree barks with their bare hands. Tree barks = human flesh in a real fight. Skills that you will not learn in "John Smiths Tiger Claw Academy" New Jersey branch.

 

To conclude, if you are happy with your Thai boxing, then good for you. Most people in the martial arts world, including yours truely, know that it is an effective fighting/self defense system.

 

Wing Chun. Is Wing Chun effective in alleyway fithts? Yes. Was Wing Chun used for combat in wars? Yes, that is civil wars. Wing Chun was used by many rebels because of its effectiveness and because of the relative short time it took to master it as opposed to other kung fu styles. "A crash course in Shaolin kung fu" is a description of wing chun that I came across somewhere. What I can say for sure is that Wing Chun was not invented in a day and no one said "hey lets create a style for back alley fights". Wing Chun had existed and was evolving long before it became known by its current name. Though it stresses short range fighting Wing Chun also possess effective long range strikes. This duality is reflected in its weapons as well. The butterfly knives for short range and the long pole for long range combat.

 

Note: You are very unlikely to find a kung fu style that is just long range or just short range. Or just hard or soft. The chinese always have a way of balancing things out. For the same reason you will always find grappling techniques in all major styles of kung fu. These are factors that contribute to the immense depth of this art.

 

Peace,

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[muaythaifreak]

As I have said before, sport muay thai is not the everything that traditional muay thai consisted of. It is a "sport" version of a battle tested art which included weapons, (swords, spears, and a multitude of other weapons. It also included grappling, throws, clinching, everything you described for "kung fu" as a generic label for all the styles involved. It is also true that Muay Thai is a generic term for all the martial arts styles included in traditional muay thai. The punch, kick, elbow and knee are the tools used in the ring. It goes much deeper than that if you research it. And I would say in order to master every facet of muay thai would surely take as long as it would to master every facet of Kung fu. If it were even possible. I cannot say that it is or is not being that I've never known anyone who had mastered it all.

 

Basic weapons and their application. Krabi Krabong.

 

1.Krabi.

 

Is very similar to a sable. It is used to stab, is thin and sharp ,metallic and is a ground weapon;Normally used by high rank soldiers.

 

2.Krabong.

 

Is a wooden bar,made normally from Bamboo, It is 6 feet long. It is very easy to make one and very effective because of it's long range. Is normally a ground weapon and the people that used it are farmers that became soldiers.

 

3.Daab(Sword).

 

This is the more popular weapon in the history of Siam. Sometimes the warrior held two swords (One on each hand), this is call "Daab Song Muun" They can be used to stab or slash the opponent. Normally a ground weapon and is a little more curved and heavier than a "Krabi".

 

4.NGAO(Spear).

 

This weapon is to be used on Elephant-back or horse-back. Normally the King would use this weapon. There is an extensive variety of different spears. When the King was going to Battle on the sides of the Elephant he had different kinds of spears. The end of some look like a knife, others looks like a fork, and some like a sword.

 

Some are for slicing, some to trap the opponents weapon, and some for stabbing etc. The spears consist of a strong and long wood pole and with a sharp metal end. The form changes1 depending of what kind of spear you are talking about.

 

5.Mae Sun Sowks.

 

Is a ground level weapon ,made of hard wood or bone. They come in pairs, each one you wear iton the out side part of your forearm. The weapon is used to attack as well asto block .Because it is a close range weapon you can use it very well in close combat.

 

6.LOH(Round Shield).

 

This weapon normally is used to block but you can strike with the edges as well. It is big and round, and is made of metal or skin.

 

7.DUNG.(Long Shield)

 

This weapon is a different kind of shield, it is long and thing. It covers from the shoulder until your knee and is made of skin or metal and is "HEAVY"!!!

 

8.Kaen.(Medium Shield).

 

This shield is rectangular like DUNG, but is not very long. It adjust well on your forearm. Made from the same materials as the other shields.

 

Note:When we say that one weapon is to be used on the ground or on the horse and that only certain people use certain weapon,I mean... normally!! but in fact any person can used any weapon in any place.It's not any rule that says that you can or cannot. In a matter of fact the warriors were all well trained in each weapon not just in one.

[Drunken Monkey]

wing chun isn't a crash course in shaolin.

 

technically speaking, it is anti-shaolin.

 

also it was specifically designed for use in the alleys (or any other place where the traditional shaolin style could not move as they desired, whilst the wing chun guy retains his entire arsenal).

 

while they might not have said 'let's design a system fo use in alleys, they did say 'let's design a simple to learn system that can be used against the traditional shaolin styles.

 

take a look at the pole form.

 

it has range, yes but it is very narrow, again for the environment in which it was intended.

 

wing chun was not used by the rebels for any reason other than because it was they who created the style (look for stuff about a bloke called cheung ng and the red junks. forget the five elders myths and legends...)

 

punching through bricks, tiles and rocks are parlour tricks.

 

there's a guy that can heat a pan of water by sticking his hands in it....

[wing chun kuen man]

Interesting info on the weapons, I did not know anything about the MuyThai weapons. I appreciate the fact that sport thai boxing may lack the techniques and the essense of real traditional Muay Thai as an art, and I said before I consider it to have depth and history. Just that I consider kung fu to have more depth than Thai Boxing. After all it has influenced the development and evolution of countless other far eastern martial arts including those of Karate, Jiu-jitsu and various korean and vietnamese fighting systems. Its far reaching influence is proof of the great depth and richness that is Kung Fu.

 

And there is the internal aspect of kung fu trainning that is ignored and misunderstood by the majority of the martial artists in the west including many kung fu practitioners themselves. Maybe because it takes a long time to get tangible results and it conflicts with the "time is money" philosophy of the modern martial arts business. Then there is Chin-na, joint and nerve center manipulation that at the highest levels requires the energy trainning (chi) to be even more effective. This art is present in the major kung fu styles and its main purpose is to maim or kill the opponent. The fact that you and others may have clouded views of kung fu is due to a lot of so called kung fu experts teaching McDonald Kung Fu just as it is happenning with Karate and other martial arts. The fact is that the more simplified an art the easier it is to teach and for one to pretend to be an expert in it. That is what has happened to kung fu and also karate.

 

Anotherthing, traditional Okinawan Karate has many grappling techinques as well as weapons and its purpose was to kill and maim the enemy in the shortest possible time. What do we do now, shall we start an argument on wether Okinawan karate has more depth than Thai boxing? Are you saying that Thai boxing has more depth than any other martial arts on the planet? Because if you are saying that it has more depth than kung fu, then you are implying that.

 

Fortunately for Thai boxing, even in simplified (sport) form it manages to be a more effective fighting system than most simplified forms of Kung Fu. No one is denying that. And if you think that it is the most powerful fighting system on the face of the planet then you are entitled to your opinion. We all choose our paths in life.

 

Wing Chun and Kung Fu. Wing Chun is not the only short range style of kung fu. There are other traditional kung fu styles that are short range styles, eg. Shaolin ShortFist (there is also a Shaolin Longfist)and some styles of Praying Mantis kung fu. Most other major styles mix long and short range techniques and you are unlikely to find a style that is only short range or long range. Styles such as the Shaolin Five animales have a rich range of short and long range techniques and believe me, you wouldn´t want to fight an expert in this art in a dark alley. Also the Wing Chun long pole is not the first weapon I would take to a back -alley fight, compact and narrow forms or not. Some Wing Chun styles even teach darts throwing as long range weapons.

 

 

 

If Wing Chun was used by rebels solely because

 

it was created by them means that it was useful to fight wars with it and that is why Wing Chun is a MARTIAL ART. That was its purpose.

 

Are you saying that breaking bricks and tyles are tricks and that no one can do that? Or are saying that they are irrelevant. Well, they are real for one and irrelevant to me as long as the guy breaking the brick is not using the same technique on my head...lol.

 

Peace,

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

 

Ps. I am going to find out more on Cheung Ng..thanks for the tip.

[Drunken Monkey]

shaolin 'longfist' is not a 'long range' style....

 

the 'long' is in reference to the river of the same name (cheung) in that the form is long and continuous like the river.

 

i should point out that the first recorded tai chi form is also called (cheung kuen/long-fist).

 

also, i know ng ying kuen.

 

it is a very close range style (or as i prefere, it teaches you to close gaps)

 

why wouldn't you want a six and half point pole in an alley?

 

what would you pick of the chinese weapons, from any style over this one with this form?

 

i should say that i have never heard ANY wing chun line teaching throwing weapons.

 

more info if you please.

 

also, it wasn't used to fight wars.

 

there was no organised fighting during the rebellion.

 

instead you have what i can only describe as terrorist acts.

 

you can call it a war if you want but it was nothing of the sort.

 

i say again, it was specifically designed to be anti-shaolin because at the time, the majority of the military and body guards were skilled shaolin guys.

 

it's purpose wasn't to be used in mass combat.

 

it was to be used to 'remove' singular people and to aid escape via said alleys.

 

i've said this elsewhere but the chinese do not describe the martial arts as that.

 

'martial arts' is a western term that has been accepted to describe the 'fighting arts'(this being a closer term).

 

whether or not a chinese fighting art has been used in a war of any sort does not have any bearing on it being regarded as a 'chinese martial art'.

 

trust me.

 

it's a language thing.

 

now to the brick breaking and related.

 

i'm not saying that they are not possible

 

but

 

i'm pretty sure some of the guys here can tell you how it's done.

[wing chun kuen man]

Yes you are right and the river in question is the Yangtzee river in China. However, shaolin long fist is still a long range style even though like all styles of kung fu it posseses short range capabilities. Actually there are various styles under this umbrella name. One more thing, you would not believe how long range it can get....I won´t say anymore because I don´t want to spend the rest of my days sending posts to people who don´t see further than their punch bag. I am not talking about you by the way, as you seem to have an understanding of chinese martial arts and their inbuilt concepts. I made a mistake in my previous post by not saying that Shaolin Short fist is not a single style but a name that refers to southern chinese short range styles that INCLUDE

 

wing chun.

 

As you will know at chum kiu level I am not yet trainning in weapons. As for the question of using a long pole in an alley, well if an alley is too small to use long range hand and foot techniques it may be too small as well to use the Wing Chun pole. In the end it comes down to the size of the alley. My Wing Chun weapon of choice in an alley fight would be the butterfly knives, because they are smaller and are easier to conceal than a pole. They are also edged weapons that are capable of causing more damage, specially where fighting space is restricted.

 

I have never heard of a Hong Kong lineage of Wing Chun using darts in their weapons trainning. However, darts are incorporated in some mainland China lineages of Wing Chun. I study a mainland China system of Wing Chun and we have techniques and kicks that do not exist in the Yip Man lineage. It is my understanding that Yip Man did shall we say a "Funakoshi" to Wing Chun, i.e. he "modified" it. While we are on the subject, there are some mainland styles (not mine) that also use real wide stances that look more like the classical shaolin than Wing Chun. Anyway, you may find references to darts in Wing Chun in books or in the internet, all I can say that it exists in the lineage that I practice and probably in other lineages outside Hong Kong.

 

When, I said that Wing Chun was used in wars, did not mean an army of Wing Chun exponents charging the imperial guard units of the governments on horses. I suppose it is a matter of interpretation. If I join a group of friends to fight for "freedom" from "oppressors" then I am at war with them. If I am trainned in any art that helps me in my battles specially in the combat aspects, then I am learning an art of war to help me fight a war. It can be called a martial art or a fighting art but WC was used in lets say hit and run and or as you termed it "terrorist" actions. One man`s terrorist is another man´s holy warrior who is given full military honor when he gets killed in action, again it is only interpretation. As for it being anti-shaolin you are right but are´nt all high level shaolin systems equipped with the necessary tools do defend themselves against other shaolin styles? I think they are. The difference with Wing Chun was that you would learn these defences in a relatively shorter time span, which made Wing Chun practical in a time of war or lets say civil disorder. What I am saying is based on my readings and info that I have gotten from my sifu. However, I am here to learn more.

 

As far as breaking bricks, etc. is concerned suffice to say that it is a real phenomenon and I suppose some martial artists use it to measure their power or for demonstrations of their capabilities. Could they be faked to fool the public? Yes of course, so can many other things. Does having the power to break hard objects mean that one can fight? Not necessarily, but if he knows how to fight then BEWARE!

 

Peace,

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man