Martialartist Posted July 11, 2003 Posted July 11, 2003 I just wanted to see some opinions about classical forms or kata's. I think its interesting to see the views that people have of them. Any opinions are appreciated. Thanks
martialartist1 Posted July 12, 2003 Posted July 12, 2003 kata and classical forms? kata is dance, classical forms is classical. kate practitioners have better technique, classical forms is old. kata is old. sparring is new. kata is ancient, yet deadly. use kata without forms and use forms without kata. or use kata soft, use forms hard to use kata hard and use forms soft.
WhiteBelt Posted July 12, 2003 Posted July 12, 2003 Kata and forms were ways of hiding self defense techniques. Now they add a touch of 'art' to the MAs that include them.
jmd161 Posted July 12, 2003 Posted July 12, 2003 Forms were designed as movements to show techniques within a style.Because there are so many movements/techniques within a style that this was the only way to remember all the techniques without losing them.The problem with forms is ppl think you're supposed to fight using forms.Forms are a guide to techniques they're not meant as a means to fight with the techniques. You have to practice and make the techniques you own to be able to apply them in combat. jeff The Basics Are The Hidden Secret To Kung Fu Master The Basics.
rb Posted July 12, 2003 Posted July 12, 2003 Opinion in regards to what? Your question has no context. I agree Jmd161. I see many ppl who just learn forms for show yet have no concept of the techniques within. These people also tend not have any power in their movements and are only concerned with how fast they can do them. I don't care how fast a person goes, if it is sloppy it is still sloppy fast. I also have to shake my head at musical kata and flashy demo acrobatic forms.
TJS Posted July 12, 2003 Posted July 12, 2003 I would rather my techniques not be hidden and simply be taught to me a realistic no nonsense way.
WC-Strayder Posted July 12, 2003 Posted July 12, 2003 In Wing Chun we have forms. Not many, but a few and I think there are a great way to improve my teckniques, but I'll sure will get my butt kicked if I try to fight with them. Try to look at them for what they are, not what they are not. Spar is the modern way of training someone wrote here, but off cause!. We do that to and off cause, they did that before to!. Don't be foolish. Forms are a great way to improve and remember things and tecknique by, so don't try to give them any other "secret" or "hidden" meanings, coz that is all they do, nothing else. I do one every day, the first one we learned in Wing Chun, the Sil Nim Tao form, sometimes more than one time to and I love it!. It gives me a great way to improve my weapons, to feel my own body and to bread properly and right. I use it as a tool, nothing else and if you can't se anything good with it then it is your problem. I will use it as it is anyway, no matter what you guys deside of it. So long boyz 'N girlz. It's summertime in Norway now, so I rather enjoy Sil Nim Tao in the sun instead of in front of this dumb PC...... May the force be with you. Soon we learn flying too...... If the first lesson was a failure, then you know that skydiving isn't for you!
G95champ Posted July 12, 2003 Posted July 12, 2003 I would rather my techniques not be hidden and simply be taught to me a realistic no nonsense way. What fun is that. LOL Understood (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
major_motoko Posted July 14, 2003 Posted July 14, 2003 Ah this old discussion again. Some people will always think kata/forms are useless.. no point in learing them etc etc... and everyone is entitled to their opinion of course! My opinion as a karateka is this. Kata is karate! Without the kata we wouldn't have the karate we have today. The techniques have all been passed down, from China and Okinawa via kata!! Kata were thought to be entire styles of their own at one point. But - Kata is nothing unless you also study in depth it's applications against a real opponent! Unless you do that all you are doing is as someone ealier said "a dance".I also have to shake my head at musical kata and flashy demo acrobatic forms. I agree! Kata can be beautiful, lovely to look at, and yes they bring the "art" to martial arts.. but they will not be of practical use unless you do the Bunkai/Oyo at full force with a partner. Kata is one of my favorite parts of karate. I love performing kata, and I love learning it's applications. And of course a full rounded martial artist would train in both sparring and kata! Obviously kata does not work for all martial arts, I'm not sure if arts such as Judo, Jiujitsu even have kata? Just my humble opinion I'm sure others here on the forum will give good arguments against kata practice too. osu motoko 2nd Kyu Brown Belt, Wado Ryu Karate-do"Daniel-san best karate still inside!" Mr Myagi
Kirves Posted July 14, 2003 Posted July 14, 2003 You're quite right, major_motoko. We often hear about how some old time master karateka trained some kata 4 hours a day for years on. The common misconception is that people think it means he performed the kata as a solo dance for 4 hours! Of course that four hour session included bunkai/tichiki training too! But opinions are opinions. Everyone's got one. I'd hope people had informed ones but we don't live in a perfect world, do we. For me, karate is something I do rather than talk about it (though I like talking about it too). So I'd rather spend an hour training and studying a kata than arguing about it's usefulness with someone who feels it is useless. I tell someone once, some people even twice, how kata can be useful, but if they don't listen or agree, I don't care.
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