TJS Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I ran across a Good article about sport training vs self defense/combat...pretty good and i though i would share. http://www.judoinfo.com/sport.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValeTudo Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Hey TJS, You should also post this in the Combative Martial Arts section. They will probably respond a little more to it. Anyway, I (obviously) agree with most of what this article says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjanurse Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Good article!!! Thanks!!! "A Black Belt is only the beginning."Heidi-A student of the artsTae Kwon Do,Shotokan,Ju Jitsu,Modern Arnishttp://the100info.tumblr.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC-Strayder Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Yeah, good article. It raises some of the biggest arguments in MA, sport or self defence, what's best. Hard to say. It is totally up to you, it is what you like. I personally think that the way this article describes "the combat" styles is from the past, before people "woke" up a little and don't get around so mush to day. Maybe in the socalled McDojos, yes, but in most schools and clubs today I think they train realistically, with sparring, testing and failing, so I think it's little off line to day. Maybe I'm wrong, but I personally can't say we train in any stuff that won't work in a self defence situation, but I know a few socalled sport karate schools that think they train self defence, but really can't fight there way out of paper bag. I think they are dangerous to. If the first lesson was a failure, then you know that skydiving isn't for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteBelt Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 This article pretty much sums up why I'm interested in judo, jj, mt, kyokushin (well maybe a bit less). While we do train fairly realistically in my dojo, we do not do full contact in our sparring or self defense. In the end it's up to the participents, and my girlfriend who will 'beat me up' if I do anything too risky... I've been trying to convince her to ease up for the past three months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta1 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Good article, and some good points. But not the whole story. I guess I'd have to harp once again on the theme of ballance. Competition is an excellent training method. Even if you are just sparing with different stylists and rules and environments you aren't used to, you need to step out of your comfort zone and put it on the line. I agree with the author there. Some moves or techniques though will have to be 'pulled'. Even Judo doesn't do full joint breaks in training, but they know how to do them. And we obviously don't do even light contact when executing a finger thrust to the eyes unles our partner is wearing a shield/goggles. No elbow smashes to an exposed spine, even if he's wearing protection. But we know. The difference is intent, and many schools train for that in many ways. In the ring, you intend to win but not to kill or injure. In light sparing you intend to train speed, accuracy, form, etc. against an unpredictable opponent. In 'full'(?) contact sparing you practice functioning in the chaos and 'ugly' of a real fight, but still without the intent of serious harm. Only in the real deal do you have this intent, or at least you'd better. But even then we adjust the level of response to the level of percieved threat. You adjust your intent to the situation. My point is that we need a ballanced training regimen. This 'my way vs. yours' is not the way. I think the sport of boxing has some glareing weaknesse as a martial art. But I'd never underestimate a boxer, and in fact would sooner fight most martial artists as a good boxer. He's used to taking and giving with intent, and that makes him dangerous. Ballance him out with some kicking skills and maybe a little grappling, I'd about as soon go one on one with a buzz saw! Freedom isn't free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Spider Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 I think that full contact sparring should be done with the intent of pummeling the other person. If you don't you will end up leaning towards submission moves, which don't work as well in real combat. Many submission moves leave you open to being bitten, kicked/punched/headbutted in the groin, etc... things that don't work well or are not permitted in general sparring. Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 If you don't you will end up leaning towards submission moves, which don't work as well in real combat I though choking someone unconcious or breaking a limb was generally effective..Many submission moves leave you open to being bitten, kicked/punched/headbutted in the groin, etc yes and many dont.. yes it's possible to get bitten but here is how it works..I'll break it down You bite me and i break your arm Bite Broken arm wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Spider Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Says who? Breaking an arm won't end a fight. Choking doesn't work very well in my experience, it's kind of uncomfortable but doesn't cause unconciousness. Furthermore, using a threat of breaking an arm is pointless. Either you are not planning on letting me walk away, in which case you might as well break it now anyway before you get bitten/kicked/whatever. Alternatively, you may be planning to let the person back up when they claim they give up. In which case I'd attack again as soon as I got back up, or just pretend to run away and set up an ambush. That is why submission moves are useless, because the guy will just come back anyway. Unless you break his arm, in which case he might bite you, or if he's flexible, kick you in the head. And FYI, we're not kids or kittens, being bitten by an adult can cause the removal of a good deal of tissue and induce quite severe bleeding. There is no submission or grappling move I've seen that doesn't leave at least one striking limb (teeth included) unaccounted for, save for being flat on your face, which is not an easy position to get a resisting person into. Grappling moves aren't totally pointless, but in anything less than no holds barred combat things are skewed toward grappling because the person is not actually going to take a chomp out of some arteries in your arm, and they aren't likely to kick you in the back of the head while you are holding them either. (this is not impossible if your opponent is flexible.) Furthermore, they aren't going to friggin' clock you and send you to the ground like many strikers are probrably capable of doing so. That would probrably result in at least a broken nose and a nasty bruise. Grappling has an edge in sparring because it doesn't generally cause as much bleeding/assorted nasty injury. As a result, you are permitted to use more force when sparring. If you were only allowed to use the same amount of force grappling as the strikers are allowed when sparring, you probrably couldn't grapple a 12-year old. Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 Breaking an arm won't end a fight What single technique is garunteed to work and end a fight everytime? I bet it's a bit harder to put up a strugle with one arm or one leg..most would loose the will to fight when they saw the arm bent the otehr way.Choking doesn't work very well in my experience, it's kind of uncomfortable but doesn't cause unconciousness. Then You dont know what your doing..let me get you in a choke and you will be out cold in 8-12 seconds no matter who you are..it dosent matter how big or strong you are. A properly applied choke is one of the most effective fight enders out there.Furthermore, using a threat of breaking an arm is pointless Yes I would never put someone in an arm-bar unless I planed on breaking it.Alternatively, you may be planning to let the person back up when they claim they give up. In which case I'd attack again as soon as I got back up, Yes if i was stupid...so if you got your arm broken the first go around you would come back and hope for better chances with one arm'?being bitten by an adult can cause the removal of a good deal of tissue and induce quite severe bleeding. I would still rather be bitten then have have one of my limbs brutally broken..and thats assuming im not wearing jeans.There is no submission or grappling move I've seen that doesn't leave at least one striking limb (teeth included) unaccounted for Rear naked choke...and in most situations your arm would get broken before you knew what happened if someone really knew what they were doing.and they aren't likely to kick you in the back of the head while you are holding them either. (this is not impossible if your opponent is flexible.) SO now grappler should worry about their opponets kicking them in the head while on the ground ..i bet thats a real KO kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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