Martial_Artist Posted July 14, 2003 Author Posted July 14, 2003 Red J, That was a good post. People do need to be held accountable for their actions. Too often people do not want to take responsibility for their actions. We look to someone else to take care of things for us. We want things done for us, but don't want to be the one to do it. Anywho, I don't want to stray too far off topic. Thanks for the input. MA. "I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.Imagination is more important than knowledge.Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein
John G Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 I tend to agree with the statement “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. I’m not sure if you are aware but, the gun confiscation and destruction campaign (buy back) related to semi-automatic, fully-automatic and unregistered weapons. Ironically its easier to get a gun licence now than it was before the buy back. People who owned guns in the area I live (rural Australia) typically had 5 -7 guns each nowadays they have 2 – 3 each. Very few if any handed all their guns back and never purchased any new ones. I can only speak about gun culture from the Western Australian perspective, as each state had its own gun laws. Western Australia was one of the hardest states (before the buy back) to obtain a gun licence, you had to prove that you had a valid reason for purchasing one and written permission from 2 – 3 farm owners to use them on their properties. This culture brought about the fact that the majority of gun owners originated from the country and not the highly populated city or suburban areas, guns over here are primarily used on farms/cattle stations or sporting clubs and not for self defence purposes. Criminals involved with major crime have always had access to guns, the police nowadays have guns. I agree the buy back scheme was a stupid knee jerk reaction by our government and didn’t really solve any problems. However I don’t feel giving every man woman and child a hand gun will solve the problem either. We have to go back to the source and find out why people need to kill people and try to resolve those sociological problems first. ... John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do
sansoouser Posted July 15, 2003 Posted July 15, 2003 The knife is a tool, it helps us cut things easier and in a way murder easier. The spoon helps us gather more liquids to drink or eat or whatever. They are all tools that help us. The gun is a tool that helps us kill fast and effortlessly. It itself doesn't kill people, but we kill people using it just like we cut with the knife, the knife doesn't cut unless we make it cut. The amateur shoots his hands out ferociously, but lacks any true power. A master is not so flamboyant, but his touch is as heavy as a mountain.
Martial_Artist Posted July 15, 2003 Author Posted July 15, 2003 John G, I would have to agree. Criminals have and will always have access to guns. It is sad. I wish that criminals did not carry guns. Perhaps if such a thing happened then the need to carry a gun wouldn't exist. But, that's not the world we live in. Unfortunately, there isn't a solution. As long as there are criminals there will be crime, violent crime included. However, as a peace-loving individual I want the ability to defend my life and the lives of my loved ones' with the best tool available: a gun. Sansoouser, You see, to me, the gun isn't a tool that helps us kill fast and effortlessly. It is a tool that allows me to protect. Unless I seek to kill effortlessly or quickly, then the gun does not affect me. I carry it only as an option. I would rather have this tool, which BTW is a pain to carry, and never use it, than to not have it and have something happen to make me wish I had. We have strayed from what I had originally intended with this thread, but that's ok. I appreciate the good comments and information shared. This can only lead to good as we learn from each other. I don't claim to have all the answers pertaining to guns. But, I have learned something about them in my lifetime; something I think valuable for the martial artist and average citizen. MA. "I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.Imagination is more important than knowledge.Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein
John G Posted July 16, 2003 Posted July 16, 2003 Martial_Artist, Hand guns in Australia are illegal unless you are in a sporting pistol club (strictly controlled) or in the police department. Carrying knives of a certain size and type are also illegal. Laws won’t stop criminal’s intent on committing a crime from obtaining illegal weapons. My only fear with hand gun ownership is that if a criminal knew that every one had the opportunity to own a hand gun he would be more inclined to shoot first ask questions latter or buy a bigger/better gun. This may seem an over simplistic or paranoid view but I’m starting to see this trend happening now with police vs. criminals. Don’t get me wrong, if there is a need for you to carry a firearm to create a level playing field or to put it another way, have a tool at your disposal much the same way as I would carry a mobile phone just in case I need it, all good and well. The chances of me having to deal with someone holding a gun at me are slim, having said that one should not become complacent. If there is any advice you can give me or direct me too for such a situation I would be most appreciative. And for those who have to carry firearms for personal protection, maybe Patrick could open up a new forum so people can discuss and share information on such topics like guns for the purpose of self defence etc... Respectfully, … John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do
Martial_Artist Posted July 16, 2003 Author Posted July 16, 2003 John, Again, I agree that laws don't stop criminals from being criminals or obtaining illegal firearms. Sadly, that is the nature of their being criminals. Here in the US the possibility of a criminal having an illegal firearm is a high enough probablity to justify carrying a weapon. This is personal, but I don't want to take any chances with my life. Unfortunately, I have had to use my gun, never fired, but brandish in self-defense situations. Believe me, if I could stop carrying this hunk of metal, then I would, but I can't leave my wife and children's well-being in the hands of a criminal. I.e. letting them choose whether I live or not--who will pay their bills, raise them, provide emotional and physical necessities? I do know of some good books on defensive pistol use. Perhaps the best for novices is a book by Masaad Ayoob, titled, "In the Gravest Extreme." It is a grim book, but completely details what occurs in a pistol fight. Masaad is a 25 year police veteran and the most recognized expert on defensive pistol shooting in the US--he is often called as an Expert witness in court to testify as to what happens in a gunfight. He details, for the civilian, what to expect and what usually happens when guns are introduced to the situation. It's a good read, albeit a grim one. As I said before, it is a good thing for us martial artists to learn all we can about firearms, because--for self-defense--encountering an armed criminal is always a possibility, and being unprepared/uninformed is something we all can avoid. There are some good pistol defense schools in the US, I don't know of any in Australia. But there are some websites for the schools here. https://www.gunsite.com https://www.thunderranchinc.com https://www.ayoob.com (His school is called the Lethal Force Institute.) These are perhaps the best nationally/internationally known gun schools. There are plenty of smaller good schools in the US, with many of the instructors being graduates of the other schools, but I decided to list the more prominent. Keep And Bear Arms (https://www.keepandbeararms.com) has a section called "Operation Self-Defense" that recounts self-defense articles gathered from news sources. This is a good place to learn how defensive firearm use is reported by the news. Unfortunately, most uses of a pistol used in self-defense are not newsworthy/never reported unless a shot is fired. But since only 0.1% of self-defense use actually results in discharge...well the news just doesn't care about uninteresting stories. None of my experiences have ever been reported on the news. Now we have really strayed from the original topic. Oh, well, some good discussion was achieved and that's all I wanted. MA. "I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.Imagination is more important than knowledge.Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein
ZR440 Posted July 16, 2003 Posted July 16, 2003 And a job well done by everyone who responded. Normally a thread like this would be closed by now, but it looks like everyone used their brain before their mouth. It's just too bad that the media portrays gun owners as podunk hillbillies that have confederate flags in the back windows of their pickup trucks. It's happy hour somewhere in the world.
Martial_Artist Posted July 16, 2003 Author Posted July 16, 2003 podunk...I haven't heard that word in a long while. lol. "I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination.Imagination is more important than knowledge.Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Einstein
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