Treebranch Posted October 6, 2003 Posted October 6, 2003 I was just exaggerating, but I think you see my point. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
TJS Posted October 6, 2003 Posted October 6, 2003 Well, in "the ring" usually both people have practiced BJJ at least some. Would it then be fair to say that half the time a BJJ practitioner goes into the ring he/she loses? That argument is no more valid than saying Karate is no good because in a karate-only tournament most of the guys end up losing. That dosent hold much weight and here is why. Although most Have cross trained in BJJ many do so so they can "beat it". Wrestlers cross train so they can avoid submissions and GNP, Strikers cross train so they can avoid takedown and strike. BJJ didint have to cross train to beat karate, boxing etc. in order to beat it. I hate to seem skeptical, but to my knowledge the defense in BJJ relies on manipulation of the other persons body, to remove their ability to fight back. How would one go about doing this to multiple attackers? Like many have said, BJJ has never claimed to be the best at multiple attacker situations, although it does have some strategys for dealing with them..whitch have already been discussed.
Warp Spider Posted October 7, 2003 Posted October 7, 2003 Well, in "the ring" usually both people have practiced BJJ at least some. Would it then be fair to say that half the time a BJJ practitioner goes into the ring he/she loses? That argument is no more valid than saying Karate is no good because in a karate-only tournament most of the guys end up losing. That dosent hold much weight and here is why. Although most Have cross trained in BJJ many do so so they can "beat it". Wrestlers cross train so they can avoid submissions and GNP, Strikers cross train so they can avoid takedown and strike. BJJ didint have to cross train to beat karate, boxing etc. in order to beat it. Well, my point is: BJJ practicioners get beaten all the time. Sometimes they practice other arts as well and sometimes they don't, but Venezolanos comment that other arts can't even deal with a single attacker in the ring is just plain asinine. Other arts can and have beaten BJJ, even people who haven't practiced grappling arts at all have beaten grapplers, so it's not fair to imply that somehow BJJ is the absolute ultimate fighting art. Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God!
TJS Posted October 7, 2003 Posted October 7, 2003 Other arts can and have beaten BJJ Well the first dozen couldent pull it off...after a few years people began to learn it and yes they adapted.so it's not fair to imply that somehow BJJ is the absolute ultimate fighting art In pure stlye vs stlye 1 vs 1 It proabably is. You can argue until you turn blue that thats not true but history says otherwise. BJJ has dominated other stlyes and has a better track record than ayone else. Im not even a BJJ guy but I realize obvious truths.
Venezolano Posted October 7, 2003 Posted October 7, 2003 Warp Spider sorry but i couldn't understand what you told about me (my english isn't excellent). Man i'm not saying that BJJ is infalible, and that nobody can defeat it, none art is, but what it's true, is that it is VERY VERY effective in real situations and have been proved along the time, with facts and not with theory like others MA. I was wondering about your comment, could you tell me who's the person (that didn't have any grappling experience) that defeated a grappler? (most specific a BJJer)Well, my point is: BJJ practicioners get beaten all the time. Sometimes they practice other arts as well and sometimes they don't, but Venezolanos comment that other arts can't even deal with a single attacker in the ring is just plain asinine. Other arts can and have beaten BJJ, even people who haven't practiced grappling arts at all have beaten grapplers, so it's not fair to imply that somehow BJJ is the absolute ultimate fighting art. Valencia - Venezuela.
Warp Spider Posted October 7, 2003 Posted October 7, 2003 Warp Spider sorry but i couldn't understand what you told about me (my english isn't excellent). Man i'm not saying that BJJ is infalible, and that nobody can defeat it, none art is, but what it's true, is that it is VERY VERY effective in real situations and have been proved along the time, with facts and not with theory like others MA. I was wondering about your comment, could you tell me who's the person (that didn't have any grappling experience) that defeated a grappler? (most specific a BJJer)Well, my point is: BJJ practicioners get beaten all the time. Sometimes they practice other arts as well and sometimes they don't, but Venezolanos comment that other arts can't even deal with a single attacker in the ring is just plain asinine. Other arts can and have beaten BJJ, even people who haven't practiced grappling arts at all have beaten grapplers, so it's not fair to imply that somehow BJJ is the absolute ultimate fighting art. Unfortunately, I don't have names for you, because I didn't really pay that much attention. One that I remember was in one the "King of the Cage" matches. A BJJ practicioner went for a double leg and instead caught a MT kick to the head, which knocked him out. Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God!
Venezolano Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 I thought you were saying that a non-grappler had defeated a BJJ guy in the ground, that'w why i asked you the name of those persons. What you say is tru,e it has happened many times, althought takedowns aren't the most "strong" part of BJJ (its Wrestling), there are people who have done GnP to some BJJer and have defeated them, i'm clear with that and i accept it. But if you see the statics, and the average, it's favor to BJJers. you understand my point? Valencia - Venezuela.
Warp Spider Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 Well, yes, I'll agree that MMA does tend to have grapplers winning, but I don't believe that MMA is a fair comparison to actual fighting. Of course, there are those that disagree and there's been numerous threads on that topic in the past. Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God!
Treebranch Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 Well fact of the matter is that BJJ is not designed for multiple opponent fighting. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
SevenStar Posted November 7, 2003 Posted November 7, 2003 it doesn't have to be - karate isn't DESIGNED for it, but it can be adapted to handle it. bjj is no different.
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